A Question About Non-US Research Doctorates

I am hoping that some our posters will have information necessary to address a couple questions for me.

1. Acknowledging that it will vary from university to university, does anyone have a general idea how research-only non-US doctorates are recorded on a transcript? Do they simply put the title and perhaps a summary of the dissertation? Taught programs generally list the classes. In the case of the research doctorates, there are no classes to list.

2. Again acknowledging that it varies from school to school, any general knowledge as to how US colleges and universities look at research only programs? I was noticing that in the case of several doctoral programs, the coursework is essentially the same as the coursework in the doctoral programs. A relative of mine completed a doctorate is Sociology at the University of Michigan. Upon completion of the coursework, he was awarded a Masters degree. Upon completion of the dissertation, he was awarded his Ph.D. That said, I'm just wondering how US schools tend to look at the foreign research doctorates, when there is no "coursework" as such involved.

Your comments are appreciated.

 

I'm not the most knowledgeable guy when it comes to this sort of thing, but I'll do the best I can:

At ECU, research enrollment is treated as if it were a class; e.g. someone doing a Ph.D. in Applied Histrionics would be enrolled in APH 5500 if part-time and both APH 5500 and APH 5501 if full-time. But I'm pretty sure folks never ask for a Ph.D. transcript, because what you basically see is the same unit listed X number of times. Folks are more likely to ask to see the dissertation abstract, find out who you worked with, etc.

I've never seen any evidence of a stigma on the coursework vs. research matter (the prestige of Oxford, Cambridge, ANU, etc. would seem to prevent any sort of across-the-board stigma against research doctorates), but there is the internal vs. external stigma, which is probably magnified when the external student resides in a country other than the one his or her university resides in. No evidence of how severe this stigma might be, or even whether it's worth noting; this would be a good topic for somebody's Ph.D. dissertation.


Cheers,

 

Re: Re: A Question About Non-US Research Doctorates

Thanks for responding, Tom. I assume the doctoral work you're doing at Edith Cowen is research based. Is that correct? If so, does the university assign grades "along the way" as you complete components of the research? For example, is there a grade assigned to the research proposal or the first chapter?

Your point about doctorates being done externally when the student resides in another country is well noted. Have you found people to have raised eyebrows when you mention your doctoral pursuits? And finally, what is the discipline in which you're pursuing the Ph.D.

Thanks again for your help.

 

Re: Re: Re: A Question About Non-US Research Doctorates

You're most welcome.

Technically, although I've discovered that the pre-proposal work in a research program often resembles coursework more closely than one might think. I've got a reading list so long that it's eating up all of my book budget at present, I have to polish up my Hebrew, etc. My rule of thumb is that if my supervisor mentions a book, I find a copy and read it whether I think it'll be directly useful to my dissertation or not (and since my supervisor and I have very similar research interests, I'm having a great time following this policy).

Each research unit gets one of the following grades:

SP -- Satisfactory progress.

MP -- Marginal progress. Student has one semester to correct issues or s/he will be recommended for exclusion.

F -- Fail. Student is excluded on the spot.

TS -- Thesis submitted. (The thesis will get its own grade, which will be the grade of the degree--fail [below 50%], pass or conceded pass [pass below 59%], credit [60% to 69%], distinction [70% to 79%], or high distinction [80% or above].)

Nobody whose eyebrows weren't raised already; I've never been much of a conformist.

At this point, I'd say either psychology of religion, philosophy of religion, or Jewish philosophy; the actual degree major is interdisciplinary studies. My research focuses on the American rabbi and philosopher Max Kadushin (1895-1980), author of Organic Thinking (1938) and The Rabbinic Mind (1952).


Cheers,

 

Thanks for the Insight

I appreciate the information, Tom. Much success to you in your program. I have essentially narrowed by options to UNISA since they are among the only non-US GAAP schools that offer a doctoral program in public administration/policy. The price is is also unbeatable. I looked at Australian schools and believe I may have found one that may offer a similar program, but I think residency was an issue and/or they focused largely on public administration for law enforcement personnel.

I hope to begin this in earnest in the coming months. Again, thanks and good luck.

 

research doctorates

I've got one (PhD, History, Nottingham, 1997).

Transcript? What's that? Don't have one, either for my research-only PhD OR for my coursework plus thesis MPhil from St Andrews (would be called an MLitt nowdays, or an MA in England. Long story.) Yes, this does cause problems. Sometimes big ones involving hiring committees

Yup. I have a computer printed certificate and a letter from the assistant registrar, both stating that my students can call me "Doctor." But nothing saying what, if any, classes I took.

Does this help any?

Jon Porter
Indianapolis

 

UK research and 'taught' doctorates

I've just finished supervising my tenth 'taught' doctoral student and I've just completed a joint supervision of a research-only PhD candidate. In all I've been involved with 20 or so PhD supervisions and have also been involved with some US doctoral programmes.

In one sense, the background work (extensive literature review) aronnd the themes to be developed for the PhD research is the 'course work'. However, a candidate goes down all sorts of routes and it would be unhelpful to 'grade' at any point. In the Uk the majority of doctoral candidates first register for the MPhil and at the end of 18 months or so have to present a very detailed research proposal to their supervision and, increasingly, a general doctoral committee. If progress has been with the literature review and the research proposal seems fine then upgrade to doctoral registration occurs.

In the UK it is important at PhD level that your supervisor(s) and the external examiners are 'tops' in their field. Few institutions issue transcript per se. After I completed my own PhD I had to write to the University, having drafted what I wanted them to write in an open testimonial(!), requesting a formal document testifying to what I had done, how long it had taken, naming my supervisors and external examiners (together with their credentials, where they earned them and what their rank/status was, etc).

Generally speaking, UK academics still see (and my impression is that the same is true in the US) the PhD/DPhil as more prestigious than the so-called 'taught' doctorate (EdD, DBA, etc).

I have recently been involved with the PhD work undertaken in a British university by a professor from a well known Canadian university and by a Canadian business woman. They have had no problem habing their British research PhDs accepted in either the academic or the business world. In fact, quite the opposite! The Canadian professor had a 'rough time' because after the viva voce examination the external examiner decided to 'refer' the thesis for 12 months further re-writing and revision, the guy having arranged a party to immediately foolow the viva! He was devastated (as we were we all) and how he got through his party I'll never know. One of his supervisors announced after the viva, just before the party took place, that the guys had a 'qualified' pass! Well, that's true but he still had to make all the chanmges and, to his credit, he did the work in 4 months and all was fine!

This is getting to be a long post! Sorry! Two years ago I supervised an American doing a DBA at a British institution. He was/is extremely bright and was looking at chaos theory as it applies to organizational development. Candidates can have a say as to who the external examiner(s) can be. He decided on an American who, at the time, was a professor at another British university having been a professor at two or three well known US institutions. Myself (as supervisor) and the internal examiner had decided his DBA thesis was actually alright and it was!), save for a few changes that probably needed to be made over the next 4-6 weeks. During the viva the fellow American examiner turned on the candidate and proceeded to verablly 'whiplash him'! She told him it was the worse piece of writing she'd ever seen and so on. The internal examiner and myself (who are not allowed to say anything during the viva) sat there amazed! At the end we objected to her decision and put this inw riting. However, she got her way, the candidate revised the work and then it went back to the external and she turned round and stated the subject matter was out of her field now! The thesis went to a don at Cambridge University who read it, stated he didn't need to viva the gusy and that it was worth a doctorate anywhere! Hey ho! I'll stop....other than to state that the female US professor was back in the US 12 months after all this happened!

 

Re: Thanks for the Insight

Thanks! Please do feel free to contact me if you have any further questions.

I can't blame you a bit--though if you do find yourself looking at Australia again, you may want to check out Curtin University of Technology (if you haven't already).

I applied to UNISA myself in late 1996 for a DLitt et Phil in philosophy, but my BA was not sufficient for entry (nor should it have been, but I didn't know any better at the time). I'm confident that you're more than qualified for admission, though you may want to see about getting the "Pretoria clause" ("I agree to travel to Pretoria if asked to do so...") waived in advance. The UNISA reps in Canada should be able to tell you how to go about doing this, as it's not an uncommon request (or so I've been told).

Good luck!


Cheers,

 

The area that might be problematic is if you desire to do post-doctoral work. This is the problem I ran into with a research PhD. I wanted a generic psychology research PhD and then wanted to go to Feiling, eg., to do a clinical psychology certification program. The certication program requires certain courses in the doctoral program for entrance. Ergo, the research PhD would not suffice.

 

This is interesting; what do they do if someone earns a brick-and-mortar D.Phil. in clinical psychology from Oxford?


Cheers,

 

Uk research doctorate

Someone doing a pure research clinical psychology degree will probably already have done one of the many master's level programmes that gets them membership (once the degree is earned) of the British Psychological Society which will also get them Chartered Psychologist status if they have done enough practical/professional work. In recent years there has been a growth in 'professional doctorates' in psychology (DPsy) which never existed ten years ago. Most of these programmes qualify people to practice or do whatever.

 

Re: UK research and 'taught' doctorates

Very interesting post telefax. Thank you for sharing your experience.

North

 

Re: research doctorates

Thanks, Jon. So how have you dealth with the matter of the hiring committees? Is this a case where many American institutions just aren't familiar with the research doctorate? Besides, as I stated in the orginal post, the coursework done for doctoral programs is typically the same as is done in the masters programs.

 

Re: UK research and 'taught' doctorates

Now that's what you'd call "experience." Thanks for the guidance. Incidentally, have you found any difference, qualitatively speaking, between the dissertations produced by those who have done "taught" as opposed to research only doctorates?

 

Re: Re: Thanks for the Insight

I will be applying to UNISA already being in possession of a masters degree in the subject area. By the way, I'm glad you cautioned me about the "Pretoria clause." I'll remember to ask the reps as I proceed.

I'm going to take a look at Curtin University. I don't believe I looked at that one. Thanks.

 

Point noted, Howard. But I think in the case of a clinician, there would be certain expectations. But for someone in my discipline, Public Administration and Policy, I'm not sure it would pose much of a problem. I can only teach or be a day to day practitioner with a doctorate in my area.

 

Colleges and Universities in Europe

defii asked me to respond to his query vis a vis 'colleges' and 'universities' in Europe. Well, I'm not so sure this will be helpful and I'm only going to stick with what I know best - the UK!

The title 'college' is now used in so many different ways it is not possible to make a distinction by defining 'college' as an institution that is 'vocationa' in origin. At one time that may, more or less, have been true but not any more. As I have already indicated, many non-degree awarding institutions in the pastnow have degree-granting powers in their own right and seek the title 'university' - wrongly in my view. Call them 'university college' by all means but the title 'university' is to do with economies of scale and, you are right, many of the colleges/university colleges do actually specialise in a small number of disciplines, often nursing, teaching and sport - for example.

All this stated, some 'schools' that educate 11-18 year olds have the title 'college'. Although many people may have heard of the UK's most prestigious 'public' schools (which are, in fact, private and fee paying!) such as Eton and Winchester, their actual full title is Eton College and Winchester College. There are others that also have the 'college' title/label.

I have already alluded to the Oxbridge system whereby your membership of your 'college' is the important fact not especially that you were at Oxford or Cambridge per se. I've rarely heard the Oxbridge people I know and work with ever refer to 'the university', it is always 'the college'!

I could go on....but will stop!

Telfax