a-phd-may-cost-you-a-lifetime-of-debt

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by warguns, Nov 20, 2014.

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  1. warguns

    warguns Member

  2. edowave

    edowave Active Member

    Interesting term that is used in the article, "Vanity PhD."
     
  3. RAM PhD

    RAM PhD Member

    The subject of this article is the primary reason I opted to complete my research M and PhD from a South African institution. After completing a B, M & professional doctorate at USA schools, I was left with student loan debt. Fortunately, I was able to pay off the student loan in about two years. While searching for feasible options for the research M and PhD, one criterion for me personally was the cost of tuition (The first criterion was legitimate accreditation, the second was a substantive and rigorous program of study). I was not willing to amass a student loan indebtedness of between $50-100K for both programs. This led me to consider the UK, Aussie and South African research degree options. While all three were substantive options, the South African option was hands down the most cost efficient. Over the past 10-15 years the US Dollar / SA Rand exchange rate has averaged between 7-10 to 1. During the years I was enrolled in the SA research M and PhD programs, the exchange rate averaged approximately 9 to 1. In lay terms, this means if the exchange rate is 10 to 1, a USA student would pay approximately 1/10 of the cost of a USA program. I was able to complete both the M and PhD and pay the tuition in full for each program prior to graduation (which of course is a requirement to graduate). When all was said/done, the tuition for my PhD program (which I completed in 2012) was just under $6K. Without the exchange rate it would have been approximately $55-60K
     
  4. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Here at DI we tend to use the term "personal enrichment."
     
  5. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    I thought Ph.D costs you alot because you are working and attending to earn one as the sametime. Otherwise, it would be free for full-time folks, who engages research and teaching while dedicating Ph.D study at the academic institution? They even give you stipen for cost of living.
     
  6. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    I agree, if I don't have the Post 9/11 to pay for half of the program. I would never taking personal enrichment Ph.D as consideration, instead spending my own time to learn mobile apps development.
     
  7. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    I think that article was trying to emphasize the defunding trend and the tiny stipend amounts. I think folks on that path are one breed, and the rest of us who are not 22, not doing research, and not student teaching are paying a zillion times more. I know I don't have the cash to even consider it.
     
  8. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    It behooves most people to get the least expensive RA Bachelors degree possible -- and then stop there. That's all most people will ever need.
     
  9. StefanM

    StefanM New Member

    In direct costs, perhaps. For traditional full-time, fully-funded students, however, the opportunity cost for not working full-time is also something to consider. Usually, a PhD student is going to spend about 4-5 years (give or take a year or two, depending on the discipline) in PhD studies and possibly a year or two in post-doctoral studies in some fields.

    Sometimes, a bachelor's level graduate or a master's level graduate can make as much in industry as a PhD holder. For these students, the master's level graduate who went directly into industry might actually out-earn the PhD graduate because of the extra time in industry and the promotions that the additional experience could generate.
     
  10. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    I agree, according to Business Insider recent article states that an average Assistance Professor makes about $62,000.00 per year. While I am making tripple that amount...
     
  11. Michigan68

    Michigan68 Active Member

    I totally agree with the statement above. I have an MBA, 15yrs of experience and I make just shy of 92K. I was told by my HR Dept that if I get a PMP Certification, my pay will bump to 105K. I recently thought about a Phd in PM at NCU . . . . 60K+, and I decided against it. The ROI just isnt there. In February 2015, I have my 4 day PMP Exam Prep Bootcamp (company paid).

    Regards,
    Michael
     
  12. NWLearner

    NWLearner Member

    The discussion around these kinds of articles is always the same. Yes, there are too many people with doctorates, yes, arts and humanities are underfunded, yes, a Ph.D. rarely offers great monetary ROI. Believe it or not, most people get that. There are many reasons people go on to get PhDs, and money is rarely one of them in my experience. I have a whole bunch of friends who went the doctorate in humanities route (not all in the US, though), and most of them have found or are in the process of finding university positions that make them happy. Probably not rich, but happy. Granted, those are "real" Ph.D.s with TA/RA positions, workdays in the department, conferences, etc. When these guys graduate, they don't even know the difference except that they can now afford a car and have to move off campus.
     
  13. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    What the article does not mention is that if you do land a teaching job at a non-profit institution, that your debt is forgiven in 10 years (provided all of the loans are Stafford Loans). If your pay is "low enough" you can have $0 monthly payments which count towards the 10 years.

    Shawn
     
  14. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    My cousin slaved to get a technical in-resident PhD in biology or biochemistry (or something like that) from a state university and after over 20 years, she is still working at a state university on an annual contract that must be renewed each year. She has no tenure, even with multiple scientific publications. But as long as she is happy, right? Mmmmmmm....
     
  15. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    This is the way that most people work. My "annual contract" is called a performance evaluation. If it's sufficiently unsatisfactory then my contract is terminated.
     
  16. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Is that the way most people work in academia?
     
  17. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

  18. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    My experience has been that this is mainly true for for profit schools. This makes sense, unhappy customers can go somewhere else and this translates in losses for the school.

    However, the risk of this approach is that it can compromise the quality of the school, student satisfaction should only be one aspect to use when evaluating faculty. I have participated in evaluation committees for faculty at Canadian schools (public) and the approach is different, we normally take into consideration course evaluations but this only counts for a percentage as we look at service, research contributions, CV, etc. In few words, some professors have reputation of being very strict and teach difficult subjects (e.g. stats) and evaluations tend to be below average but we still give a good evaluation because research, service, etc.

    Being too lenient is not guarantee of excellent evaluations but we have observed that people that give away grades at least get average evaluations while people that give lower grades tend to get below average evaluations.

    In few words, schools that rely heavily on part time faculty and renew contracts mainly on student feedback face the risk of encouraging faculty to inflate grades just to keep employment in my opinion.
     
  19. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Actually, they normally make more than a PhD working in academia. I had a discussion about this with a professor with a Harvard DBA and MBA, the average MBA from Harvard makes more than 200K a year while this professor after 20 years with a DBA makes less than 150K.

    A Canadian professor, conducted a research study and found out that actually a PhD has little effect on your salary but increases your chances of unemployment.

    Of course every case is different, some people with PhDs in Engineering and law degrees are making fortunes as intellectual property attorneys. Some people with PhDs in accounting and not CPA are making 200K teaching accounting 101 at Canadian schools.

    The PhD is still worth it in my opinion for some fields. Some fields that pay really well for a PhD are accounting, quantitative finance, engineering and law among others.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2014
  20. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Okay, so my cousin spent the blood, sweat and tears to go to a prestigious in-resident state university and she got her PhD in biochemistry, yet she has been working with an annual contract at another state university for over 20 years now. She has multiple scientific publications in peer reviewed journals, yet she is still not tenured. Every year, there are threats of budget cuts and for the last three years, her position has been threatened to be cut. So much for her in-resident PhD and her in-resident employment as a professor at a non-profit in-resident state university. Doh! ha

    Very interesting.
     

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