Is a bachelor's degree still worthwhile?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Koolcypher, Apr 26, 2014.

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  1. Koolcypher

    Koolcypher Member

  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Most people would rather be in the job market with a Bachelor's degree than without one, and I don't see that changing any time soon. However, I agree it's healthy that people are starting to ask about the value involved, since that means they'll finally start looking harder at lower cost paths to a Bachelor's degree.
     
  3. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    The article raises some valid criticisms of traditional degrees. But (like many similar articles), it doesn't offer any compelling alternatives.

    The closest thing is the suggestion that "many companies, including ours, are testing potential hires to get a first-hand look at their skills". The author works for a software company, and I think you could reasonably test programming ability. But pre-employment skills testing isn't anything new -- people have been taking pre-employment typing tests or driving tests for decades.
     
  4. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    I think the answer is "it depends." There are some jobs (doctor, lawyer, engineer) for which I think bachelor degree and more is absolutely critical. However, somewhere along the line, we started pushing the idea that EVERYONE needs a college degree, which I think is blatantly false. Thirty years ago, a high school diploma was the minimum credential most people needed to get a job. These days, a bachelor degree is being used to check that same box because the quality of a current high school education is so poor. The U.S. is continually falling behind other countries in terms of the quality of high school education. It's no mystery why young college graduates aren't "job ready" by the time they leave school. Colleges don't seem to be teaching real-world jobs skills. We had on-the-job training, vocational-technical training, and classes an writing resumes when I was in HIGH SCHOOL. Does this still happen? I'm getting the impression it doesn't.
     
  5. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    This notion that the American education system is getting worse is mostly a myth. Test scores have remained flat while everyone has passed us up mostly by reducing child poverty. When you break the test scores down by socioeconomic and ethnic groups, Americans score higher than their international counterparts. The U.S. has a higher child poverty rate than most developed nations, so our average scores are skewed downward. We are also more ethnically diverse. Additionally, it's suspected that China handpicks the students it includes in its scores. They exclude the many uneducated and under-educated people living in rural areas.

    From what I've gathered, employers in the past were more willing to train. Today, it's not uncommon to see entry-level job openings requiring a couple of years of experience using some piece of software that organization only uses. I think a bigger issue is poor hiring practices. Many qualified people are automatically weeded out by HR software just because their resumes and/or applications don't have certain keywords. I've heard stories of hiring managers getting fed up with HR because they couldn't find anyone to interview. When the hiring managers finally went over the resumes/applications themselves, they found qualified people. Some of the interviewing techniques companies use have been proven to be invalid, but they still use them. Another problem is that American culture seems to have this disdain for introverts. Highly qualified introverts are often dismissed because they won't "fit into the company culture."

    I remember being turned down for an account manager position because I had only modified schedules in a past supervisory position; I had never created them. This account only had 20 people. How hard could it be to use an application to schedule 20 people? I know people who went straight from having no experience scheduling to scheduling nearly 100 employees. This company has since gone through three account managers in two years. I am almost positive that they hired people much older than myself because I've seen it go that way so many times in the private security industry. What are they going to do? Blame the education system from 20-30 years ago, too?

    Yes, today's high schools do have vocational training. There are also magnet schools that specialize in certain areas such as health science and technology and the addition of programming courses. Universities were never meant to be career schools. Vo-tech schools are for vo-tech training. Universities are there for providing a well-rounded education.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2014
  6. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Very interesting insights. The introverts observation hits close to home, as I am most definitely one myself.

    :eek:fftopic: On the whole, introverts score higher on every type of skills and intelligence measure imaginable. Also, the value of group work has been called into question by a number of studies that show how less efficient, creative and productive it tends to be than individual work. It may be hard for many to grasp, but "brainstorming" has been thoroughly debunked as a useful method for accomplishing, well, anything. The social dynamics of groups interfere so greatly with the purpose of the group that it, ironically, sabotages the entire collaborative process.

     
  7. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    None of this for me. Not even a little. The schools position was that its main purpose was to get everybody ready for college, whether it fit into their goals and circumstances or not. I learned absolutely nothing about the job market, the economy nor any useful skills to present to an employer. Sure, I had taken French, Chemistry and Calculus, but none of that helped to bag groceries any faster. I went to the guidance counselor out of desperation, gave him my life story and told him that I needed to have a way to take care of myself ASAP and had no idea where to start. His answer for me was that if I didn't go to college, despite my lack of lodging, lack of savings, lack of family support, lack of health insurance and the like, then I was destined to be a loser for the rest of my life.
     
  8. lawrenceq

    lawrenceq Member

    I still say a BA/BS good to have, but be smart about it and don't break the bank. Also, don't sleep on trade schools. You can make a good living with a trade.
     
  9. Koolcypher

    Koolcypher Member

    Completely agree with you. It is a lot easier to outsource a programmer than it is to outsource a plumber. You cannot outsource sh..:shhh: I have yet to see an unemployed auto mechanic, plumber, HVAC tech, and so on. However, I see tons of lawyers, MBA's, MA's in English, history, humanities, liberal arts, women studies, art, and so on that are unemployed, or underemployed.:crying:
     
  10. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I would say don't sleep on apprenticeships or public technical or community/junior colleges if you have those in your area. Whenever someone mentions "trade schools," I think of all of the for-profit, vo-tech schools in my area. They charge about $10-20k per year. One could learn a trade at one of my local CCs for around $2k per year. I've heard of people going straight into apprenticeships through unions, but there aren't very many unions in my state.
     
  11. lawrenceq

    lawrenceq Member

    You are right. I was thinking about community colleges when I mentioned trade schools. I've never been a fan of overpriced career schools.

    I took up diesel mechanics, electrical technology and industrial maintenance at my local community college. I did it all for under 10k with books.
     

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