Why DETC sucks?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by AROLDODAVID, Apr 8, 2014.

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  1. AROLDODAVID

    AROLDODAVID New Member

    Why most threads here make DETC seem like the "ugly duckling" of distance education? How are they compared to regional acreditting agencies? DETC is recognized by the Department of Education, so are all other accrediting bodies? Why is DETC different?
     
  2. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    DETC definitely does not suck. I imagine that there are many DETC programs that are as good or better than comparable regionally accredited programs. I think that someday DETC will be recognized as the top quality accreditation it is. THE PROBLEM is that it is not currently recognized this way by regional accreditors. In most cases, it is difficult to get a DETC bachelors and be accepted into a regionally accredited master's program. I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but this is generally the case. It's not fair, because DETC is a fine accreditation, but that's currently the way it is.
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It stems from several causes. First, accreditation came about due to the rise of the regional associations. They've excluded other institutional accreditors since then, even if the over-arching bodies (CHEA and the U.S. Department of Education) don't make distinctions. Second, there might be reasons to criticize the processes of national accreditors, especially when examining their results. Third, DETC's roots are not in the accreditation of degree-granting institutions. They are, historically, an accreditor of trade schools. Their accreditation of degree-granting schools came decades later. Finally, and related to the last point, DETC has been accrediting degree-granting schools (awarding master's and above) only since the early 1980's.
     
  4. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Oh, here we go again. :irked:
     
  5. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    DETC crowd :swordfight: RA crowd.

    This is a perennial battle around here.
     
  6. lawrenceq

    lawrenceq Member

    My exact thoughts when I read the title of this thread.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    But it's not a "battle." There are real issues regarding the acceptability of degrees from DETC-accredited schools. While that is a fact, it isn't an all-or-nothing issue, and there are many good reasons for people to consider pursuing such degrees. But the subtleties in all of this get lost when people who cannot stand the idea that there are differences here begin defending and advocating, instead of examining and exploring. The two real camps are:

    Those who acknowledge these differences and those who deny them. The ones who acknowledge these differences are, IMHO, much more likely to be successful and satisfied with their choices and degrees. The ones in denial are just angry.
     
  8. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    The United States is not a kingdom and the U.S. Department of Education does not rule collegiate educational standards. Foreigners do not understand that.

    DETC accreditation is not an accepted educational standard for the state university systems in the United States.

    The federal penitentiary is also recognized by the U.S. Department of Education, but that recognition has limited value.
     
  9. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    LOL. See, it's stuff like this that starts the explosions.
     
  10. Boethius

    Boethius Member

    This topic feels like home . . .glad it came up again. :)
     
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The topic is extremely relevant. What is useless is the highly defensive positions taken by those with a stake in the outcome. That tends to blur the discussion and make it seem like to antagonizing sides are involved. One. Just one.
     
  12. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    I agree. It's only a battle for those who make it a battle. But there are battles nonetheless. (Plus, how else could I use my little fencing smiley?) :smile:


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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2014
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Oh, your fencing smiley was very cool.

    I'm a very big fan of the role DETC has played in the promotion of a subject I dearly love: distance learning. And goodness knows, I truly love the underdog. But I get frustrated when people insist on untruths in favor of the story that makes them feel better.

    I also feel DETC could be so much more of a force in DL, if it chose to be.
     
  14. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    It has now been 14 years since I did the only study (as far as I know) on the acceptance of DETC and comparable degrees by regionally-accredited schools. At that time, roughly 40% of regionally-accredited schools accepted DETc-accredited degrees always, or usually; 40% rarely or never; the rest in between.

    Why has no one updated this research? Things may well be different now, one way or the other.
     
  15. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    The historic argument against DETC schools was a combination of a significant amount of problems with acceptance of the degrees among employers, lack of transferability of DETC-accredited degrees and credits, and the perception that DETC's standards were lax, meaning there were some pretty crappy DETC schools.

    The issue was fueled in particular by a couple of terrible decisions DETC made in accrediting schools that were actively promoting their fraudulent accreditation and doing other shady things right up to the day they received DETC accreditation.

    In 2014, there are still major problems getting DETC degrees and credits recognized by RA schools, so that's definitely still an issue. Whether it's based on genuine evidence/experience with poor academic preparation by some/many DETC schools, I don't know, and as far as I know, nobody's actually tried to evaulate that. But whether it's done for legitimate reasons or simply as an elitist, "keep the "old boys club" of RA accredited schools where they are and keep out the "riff raff" of those shady DETC schools" mindset... I don't think anyone has any data one way or the other.

    One thing I will say: there are definitely some really shitty regionally accredited schools out there, mostly for-profits. That wasn't the case nearly as much in the 1990s as it is today. So while there may be a whole bunch of excellent DETC schools, and more than a handful of shitty RA schools (thereby considerably watering down the quality difference argument)... one thing that's still the case is that a DETC degree is a lot less transferable/recognizable as meeting the prereqs for graduate study than an equivalent RA degree. And until that is no longer the case, a DETC-accredited degree will be at a significant disadvantage over its RA equivalent.
     
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Well, there has to be someone sufficiently interested in knowing the answer, someone who has the means as well as the standing, too. Sounds like a well-funded doctoral student. Or DETC. (Assuming they want to know the answer.) Or someone interested in publishing an article.
     
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Yes, there are some not-so-good RA schools. But remember, one goes to a university for both an education and a degree. The discussions regarding DETC-accredited schools almost always fall towards the efficacy of the latter. But I have a particular interest in DETC-accredited schools awarding the doctorate without the apparent means or capability of doing so.
     
  18. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I believe the necessary research could be done in a week, at a cost of $0. (When I did my 2000 research, I spent upwards of $3,000 on mailing lists and postage; no longer necessary). I am glad to provide details on how I believe it could be done privately if someone has serious interest in pursuing this. Collecting the data: fast and easy and cheap. Analysis of the data: requires some advanced statistics skills. (Rich did mine last time.) Could be two different people, one for collection, one for analysis. Presenting a paper at the national AACRAO convention is, I'd guess, pretty much a sure thing. (Next Spring in Baltimore.)
     
  19. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I was thinking about researching the acceptance of NA degrees by Texas law enforcement agencies. I already know that the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement and a few LE agencies in the state don't recognize them.
     
  20. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    I believe there are three reasons why the DETC is not as respected or as accepted as regional accrediting agencies:

    1. $$$. The regional accrediting agencies are protecting their market share.
    2. The DETC is focused primarily on accrediting distance education schools, which have only recently started to gain widespread acceptance and credibility. Although RA schools now have their own distance education programs, "online only" degrees are still looked down upon by some.
    3. The DETC has accredited some pretty sketchy schools, in opinion. Some of those schools have since lost their DETC accreditation, but they probably shouldn't have been accredited in the first place. That doesn't do much for the reputation of the DETC.

    I have studied with two schools accredited by the DETC, and from my own personal experience, it seemed to me they were much more strict in terms of what kind of transfer credit they would accept versus some of the RA schools I have attended. When I asked the school why I couldn't transfer more credit, or why some types of credit weren't accepted, I was told it was because of DETC rules.
     

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