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  1. #1
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Question Easiest Doctorate

    I'll be the token lazy guy who is seeking the easiest RA doctorate possible:
    • Academically, which doctorates are the easiest to obtain (ie. business, education, criminal justice, ect.)?
    • In decending order?
    I know that the term "easy" is a relative term, but I'm being candid and am speaking as a layperson. Can this question be answered without ruffling feathers? Mmmmm....

    I'm not interested in all the various schools; I'm interested in the various academic disciplines. Which are the least rigorious?

    If you have any opinion in this area, it is much appreciated.
    Last edited by me again; 05-18-2002 at 01:39 PM.

    2014 - Bench pressed 43 pounds
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  2. #2
    James Barrington is offline Registered User
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    Be careful, me again

    On behalf of a friend, I asked the same question with regard to a bachelor's degree.

    http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4327

    I received some good responses and followed up on them. But, a certain individual became indignant that a person would seek an "easy" route to a degree. All schools should be equally challenging and difficult, he proclaimed. Nevermind that this same person probably has some bogus DL degree in underwater basketweaving, but the thought of someone actually trying to do things the "easy" way ruffled his blue blood feathers. I'm sure you will get some good replies, but watch out for the flames too.

    Sorry, I can't really help you with your question.

    JB

  3. #3
    Bill Grover is offline Registered User
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    When I was in it, the EdD was considered a joke by the wiseacres in the other domains at OSU. Personally , I've found Theology much more difficult.
    www.otsweb.org/

    Assistant Professor of Theological Studies and Director of Distance Education, Faith Seminary, Salem.

    Doctor of Theology, The University of Zululand...Th.M. , M.Div. (Equivalency), Western Seminary...MA in Religion, Point Loma Nazarene University...ThB , BA, in Bible, Linda Vista Baptist...Teaching Credentials: The University of San Diego (English)... Oregon State University (Special Ed.).

  4. #4
    Guest
    Originally posted by Bill Grover
    When I was in it, the EdD was considered a joke by the wiseacres in the other domains at OSU.
    This is but one more example of the bias, prejudice and academic arrogance which is found within academe. Regardless of the degree one has earned, there will always be criticism from someone. The following are examples:

    1. The Ph.D. deems the Ed.D. to be less of a doctorate.
    2. The Harvard Ph.D. deems the Michigan State Ph.D. to be less rigorous, and therefore not on the same level.
    3. The residential Ph.D. deems the DL Ph.D. to be less of a doctorate.
    4. Two Ph.D.'s from the same school. One in education , the other in microbiology. The former deeps the latter to be inferior.
    5. The RA Ph.D. deems the Ph.D. from Trinity College/University to be basically worthless. (oops, sorry! This is correct! :D)

    Bias Happens! Expect it.

  5. #5
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Posted by Russell A. Morris

    Snip...
    The RA Ph.D. deems the Ph.D. from Trinity College/University to be basically worthless. (oops, sorry! This is correct)! :D
    LOL

    When I spoke to a counselor at the University of Sarasota (now Argosy), she said that a degree in education was the easiest route. And someone on this forum also said it.

    Once I figure out the least rigorous route, then I’ll hear my calling. ;) When it’s all said and done, a RA doctorate is a RA doctorate. ;)

    I’ve never studied Greek and don‘t have any religious degrees, so I’m intimidated by a doctorate in Theology or Religion. But the Bible can be extremely interesting.

    2014 - Bench pressed 43 pounds
    2013 - Promoted to fries operator (at McDonalds)
    2010 - CPR, finally passed after 5th try
    2001 - Post High School, Microsoft Powerpoint, magna cum laude
    1998 - 12th grade, voted most likely to succeed
    1997 - 11th grade wood shop class, summa cum laude
    1989 - 3rd grade soccer, 6th place trophy

  6. #6
    Howard is offline Registered User
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    From my perspective as a former academic counselor those people who had trouble in business, engineering , and health sciences usually ended up in the school of education . FWIW!

    I had a grad professor in micro economics who told the masters level education students that "I know you are required to have 3 s/h of economics for your degree, however, you should drop this class and take one of the other econ professors since I haven't had an education major pass my class in the 15 years I have been teaching ." They took him at his word and dropped.
    Howard Rodgers
    BS/MBA Univ of Ala at Bham
    AA Faulkner Univ
    BA Univ of the State of NY (Excelsior)
    MA Liberty University
    PhD Capella Univ

  7. #7
    Guest
    Originally posted by Bill Grover
    When I was in it, the EdD was considered a joke by the wiseacres in the other domains at OSU. Personally , I've found Theology much more difficult.
    Your are correct Bill. Unfortunately, education majors take jabs (sometimes not gentle) from the undergraduate level through doctorate. An Ed.D. is a professional doctorate (in most cases) but in line with other professional doctorates such as DBA's & D.Min's requires doctoral level academic work. It is not as if any of them (at accredited schools) simply pay for the degree and occupy a spot in class.

    Regarding your theology comment I also agree. The two or three undergraduate theology courses I took during a secular undergraduate degree were some of the hardest and most intellectually challenging courses I took.

    A little off topic, but why did the University of Sarasota/Argosy decide to use the Ed.D nomencalture for all of their doctoral degrees except the DBA. They seem to equal Ph.D. requirements. Was it the State of Florida's requirement for the DL program??

    North

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  9. #8
    telfax is offline Registered User
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    Don't do it!

    If you are starting from this position...then donlt do a doctorate because you've not got what it takes! I'm British but I am aware of so many Americans starting a doctorate, getting through the course work (they seem to be good at this) and then they become ABD (all but dissertation!). Somewhere I recall reading that there is (alarmingly) a massive increasive of people taking doctoral programmes and ending up ABD! Taking a doctoate is about struggling! It's rather like being a good athlete. You have to learn to go that bit further even when it's hurting! You have to be able to demonstrate (at least in the British system) a contribution to knowledge/theory and/or practice that 'makes a difference'! If you were coming to me with this approach I'd turn you down immediately! By the way, I like to think I am one of the most reasonable and helpful supervisors at doctoral level! Most of my candidates seem to think so even whe I do give them a hard time of it! Ask my canmidate in Singapore who has taken 7 years to get his doctorate!

  10. #9
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    Re: Don't do it!

    Originally posted by telfax
    If you are starting from this position...then donlt do a doctorate because you've not got what it takes! I'm British but I am aware of so many Americans starting a doctorate, getting through the course work (they seem to be good at this) and then they become ABD (all but dissertation!). Somewhere I recall reading that there is (alarmingly) a massive increasive of people taking doctoral programmes and ending up ABD!
    One of my graduate professors noted that the difference between those who made it through doctoral programs and those who did not was discipline & tenacity. He said that by the time you get to doctoral level studies you are dealing with people with well above average intelligence so that does not make the difference between who finishes and who ends up ABD. It was discipline and tenacity. A Rabbi I knew who had an Ed.D. said that he bought a book on completing a doctoral dissertation and then followed its advice. He worked on his dissertation every day no matter how little or how much time he could put into it. He completed his program.

    So, I agree that "easy" may well cause some problems when you reach the point of getting bogged down and feeling burned out at dissertation level.

    North

    North

  11. #10
    HR PRO is offline Registered User
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    Try Pepperdine's Ed.D in Organizational Change , if you got the bucks, about 70K, you got the degree.


    HR Pro

    Ed.D., Pepperdine:D

  12. #11
    Bill Grover is offline Registered User
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    Still, I wish I had finished that EdD . One course was "Physiological Psychology ." The class was taught to us students by our filling in partially completed notes by transferring words from the text to the spaces. I like to think that this was so boring that I stopped showing up for class because of the prof's uncreativity. An "F' rewarded that attitude, and even though I was in tight with the Ed Chairman (taught some classes for him) I was dropped from the program. Too soon old, too late smart!
    www.otsweb.org/

    Assistant Professor of Theological Studies and Director of Distance Education, Faith Seminary, Salem.

    Doctor of Theology, The University of Zululand...Th.M. , M.Div. (Equivalency), Western Seminary...MA in Religion, Point Loma Nazarene University...ThB , BA, in Bible, Linda Vista Baptist...Teaching Credentials: The University of San Diego (English)... Oregon State University (Special Ed.).

  13. #12
    Anthony Pina is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by North


    Your are correct Bill. Unfortunately, education majors take jabs (sometimes not gentle) from the undergraduate level through doctorate. An Ed.D. is a professional doctorate (in most cases) but in line with other professional doctorates such as DBA's & D.Min's requires doctoral level academic work. It is not as if any of them (at accredited schools) simply pay for the degree and occupy a spot in class...A little off topic, but why did the University of Sarasota/Argosy decide to use the Ed.D nomencalture for all of their doctoral degrees except the DBA. They seem to equal Ph.D. requirements. Was it the State of Florida's requirement for the DL program??
    North
    One of the reasons that many seek graduate degrees in education is that you can get your undergraduate in practically any field and pursue a masters or doctorate in education . Usually a doctorate in physics would assume that you have at least a bachelors (and usually a masters) in an identical or closely related field. Like any discipline, I have seen colleges of education that offer rigorous (and less rigorous) programs.

    I must make a correction in North's statement above. In the great majority of cases, the Ed.D. is NOT a professional doctorate like a DBA, DMin or JD, it is a research doctorate virtually identical to the PhD. I have posted on this topic several times before (the number of posts attributed to me in this forum is not accurate) but in the largest study of colleges of education (664 institutions) and Ph.D. versus Ed.D. dissertations (over 1,000) it was found that the coursework requirements, type and level of research and statistics classes, etc. was identical for Ph.D. and Ed.D. programs. I do not know about DMins, but DBA and JD programs typically do not require doctoral dissertations, as do the Ph.D. and the Ed.D.

    It is true that when Harvard invented the Ed.D. degree over 70 years ago, it was intended as a professional practitioner's degree. Currently, there are few programs that offer both degrees and have different requirements for the two. The idea that the Ph.D. in education would be superior to an Ed.D. is based on perception, not reality.

    Tony

  14. #13
    DaveHayden is offline Registered User
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    Re: Don't do it!

    Originally posted by telfax
    It's rather like being a good athlete. You have to learn to go that bit further even when it's hurting! You have to be able to demonstrate (at least in the British system) a contribution to knowledge/theory and/or practice that 'makes a difference'!
    I like this image. How much respect would you have for an athlete that asks what is the easiest sport? What is the easiest position? What is the easiest team to play for? What city asks the least of its atheltes? If you have to ask this question I think you need to look deeper into yourself and see if a change is in order. If not I believe you are missing something. Remember it is not about reaching the goal but the journey on the way to the goal.

    P.S. What is the easiest police dept to work for? What is the easiest position in the police dept.? How much respect would you have for a new recruit that said that to you and what would your opinion of him be?
    Best Regards,
    Dave Hayden

    "Things won are done, joy's soul lies in the doing." Shakespeare



  15. #14
    Bill Grover is offline Registered User
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    Hi Me Again:

    I think that really you've just thrown up a straw man for us to hurl our arrows at. Who would want the easiest possible doctorate? One who wants the title without the respect, without the change? Sure some disciplines are easier, but should the criteria not be what is most interesting to you, what is most useful, what you would love to study even were there no titular award at the end? Were I not to love the work and the challenge the title would mean nothing; I would not do it!. The diploma adorns the wall , but the diligence adorns the soul!
    www.otsweb.org/

    Assistant Professor of Theological Studies and Director of Distance Education, Faith Seminary, Salem.

    Doctor of Theology, The University of Zululand...Th.M. , M.Div. (Equivalency), Western Seminary...MA in Religion, Point Loma Nazarene University...ThB , BA, in Bible, Linda Vista Baptist...Teaching Credentials: The University of San Diego (English)... Oregon State University (Special Ed.).

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  17. #15
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    Originally posted by Anthony Pina
    I must make a correction in North's statement above. In the great majority of cases, the Ed.D. is NOT a professional doctorate like a DBA, DMin or JD, it is a research doctorate virtually identical to the PhD. ...... I do not know about DMins, but DBA and JD programs typically do not require doctoral dissertations, as do the Ph.D. and the Ed.D.
    Tony
    Hey Tony,

    You are probably correct about this (I have not studied the difference a great deal). Truly, most of the Ed.D programs I have looked at are identical to Ph.D's in terms of credit hours and requirements for original research in the dissertation (as opposed to professional project).

    Just as an aside, the J.D. is not in the same category as the D.Min. & DBA. The JD is a *first professional degree* as opposed to a *professional doctorate*. A distinction made by the US Dept of Ed/National Science Foundation category. I suppose the idea is that *Professional Doctorates* presuppose graduate degrees in the field for which the doctorate is being pursued. The doctorate is practioner oriented. I posted the sites here previously which consisted of quite a lengthy list of titles.

    Is it now simply more a case of tradition which has some offering the Ed.D (even in non education fields) and others offering the Ph.D. I am assuming the Ph.D. still has the prestige factor putting it ahead.

    North

  18. #16
    Guest
    Originally posted by Anthony Pina
    I do not know about DMins, but DBA and JD programs typically do not require doctoral dissertations, as do the Ph.D. and the Ed.D.
    The RA/ATS D.Min. does require a dissertation. The D.Min. is usually a 36 hour program--30 hours of course work, plus 6 hours for the dissertation. While this may seem minimal hours for a doctorate, keep in mind that the degree builds on an 88-96 hour M.Div. In comparison, a 36 hour masters plus a 60-70 hour Ph.D. would total 96-106 graduate level hours. The 88-96 hour M.Div., plus 36 hour D.Min. would total 124-132 grad hours.

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