Devastating Community College Behavior and Consequences from CCSF

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Ed Edwards, Mar 25, 2014.

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  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards Member

    Protesters gone from CCSF building after sit-in - SFGate

    Apparently, this place is a shame, the students have been protesting the payment policies, the faculty have been posting the executive salaries, the executive leadership is scandalous, real people are getting physically injured, and 100,000 students are about to be attending a school that lost accreditation. More protests are on the way too.

    Man these community colleges can go bad in a big way.
     
  2. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Many colleges, 4-year and 2-year, have implemented similar policies years ago without any protests. This is California. They are a lot like France. Nice try. I guess you expect people not to pay for the courses they take.

    https://www.ccsf.edu/NEW/en/student-services/admissions-and-registration/registration/billing-and-payment.html

    Mountain State University lost accreditation and shut down, so I guess all private, non-profit universities are bad, huh?
     
  3. jhp

    jhp Member

    Is this the same school that had a sit-in in February, 2010 (Occupy CA), a march in March, 2013 (Socialist Worker)?

    The same one where the students have yet to pay $7.25 million tuition (ABC Local)?

     
  4. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Obviously, CCSF should have started doing what all of the other California colleges were doing a long time ago. The deficit was even worse at one point.
    Student debt becomes new threat to City College of San Francisco enrollment | Education | San Francisco | San Francisco Examiner
     
  5. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards Member

    Okay what? You think this is a well run school? Hahahahaa oh man. This community college is so corrupt it is unbelievable.
     
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards Member

    What, losing accreditation or having lots of scandals? This school is indefensible. 100,000 students, tons of city money, and they can't make it work!
     
  7. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Apparently, reading comprehension is lacking here. It's gotten so bad, it shut down this website for nearly 2 days.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards Member

    Personal attack! Personal attack!

    Hahaha I don't care, make fun of me all you want, I read my words real good, and, my reading ability doesn't change the fact that CCSF is a frigging disaster of a story. The community college has imploded, and real people are being hurt, some physically!

    Oh and you should also probably apologize for this too:

     
  9. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    Ed, quoting you directly, you made these claims:

    Just for the record, here you've shown one account of conflict at a community college over completely different things from what you were claiming. No deceptive recruiting is shown or even alleged, no targeting students not ready for programs is shown or even alleged, and no "student loan heavy tactics" are shown or even alleged.
     
  10. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Your reading comprehension has affected your ability to relevantly respond to my posts. CCSF has a lot of problems, but there is nothing scandalous about them making students pay for their courses. Not enforcing the policy, like they were doing before, was financially irresponsibly and partially the cause of the accreditation issues. Enforcing this policy is an improvement. Students are protesting and acting uncivilized over a reasonable policy. The school isn't forcing students to act like this.


    You think saying that a state is like France is an insult? You should apologize to France!
     
  11. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    One would think that if a school is being predatory with student loans, they wouldn't have so many students paying out of pocket.
     
  12. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards Member

    Only my two dear tag team friends here would defend CCSF, this community college is a disaster! Sit ins, riots, student protests, excessive executive salaries, faculty protests, financial malfeasance, and loss of accreditation for a school with 100,000 students even though the community college has the full support of the city. WOW! I would never try and defend a school like this like you two are.

    Of course I would never miss represent myself either, like, oh.. hmm..
     
  13. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member



    Someone doesn't know the difference between defending a school and defending a policy. If you actually read the article you posted, you would have seen that it's about protests against a payment policy that is quite common among colleges. If you wanted to criticize the school for other things, you should have posted a relevant article.

    You're still having trouble understanding what the college deems as a transient student? There is no help for you.
     
  14. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards Member

    A transient student is someone who takes courses a school B while enrolled at school A. Not someone who enrolls at school B as a degree seeking student for the sole purpose of receiving federal aid in a program they admit they have no intention of completing. Sorry friend.

    For the rest of it, forest trees, forest trees.. CCSF is a bad community college, and you are defending a very bad school simply to disagree with me and carry over a conversation from another thread.

    And now for the second tag teamer Jonathan Whatley to attack me somehow... ready... go, take your best shot..
     
  15. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    You forgot the part that that was the only way I could take courses for credit. You also forgot the part where I was degree seeking. I was seeking to transfer my credits to complete a bachelors degree.

    You need to reread your posts. You started carrying over conversations from other threads. You said "these community colleges." What does this school's special case have to do with the many other community colleges in the country? Their case isn't representative of community colleges. Their case isn't even representative of most accredited colleges. You act as if 4-year colleges have never had protests, scandals, financial problems, and accreditation issues. In the meantime, UNC has acted like a diploma mill for its athletes. Top people at Penn State covered up child molestation, but you want to paint CCs as inherently bad because of what is happening at CCSF.

    If you have nothing to say about CCSF's payment plan, then why post an article on it? There are plenty of more comprehensive articles out there. Why are you defending students who have refused to pay millions of dollars in tuition because they could get away with it? You are defending students who are causing unrest over being made to pay their tuition. That sounds unethical to me.
     
  16. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    You also forgot to mention all of this.
     
  17. jhp

    jhp Member

    Quick questions - can you point me to the reference on the enrolled 100,000 students you mentioned?

    Also, what do you mean by "bad community college"? Bad instructors? Bad administrators? Bad students? Bad building? Bad curricula? Bad location?

    I am running your post through translator and it is not clear what you mean. English is not my native language.

     
  18. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    CCSF puts the number at around 90,000.

    CCSF Home Page

    I think that it's probably somewhat less now, since the news broke that accreditation is going to be revoked. There's talk of "plunging enrollments", but I haven't heard the numbers.

    I took classes at CCSF at night for many years, after work, for personal enrichment. I must have a zillion units from that place.

    My experience is that the quality of instruction was generally good. Certainly as good as at other RA schools. The instructors were sometimes very good. Many people with advanced degrees want to live in the SF Bay Area, so there's lots of competition for teaching positions, even at community colleges.

    The large size of the school was a plus, since it meant that CCSF offered a tremendous variety of classes each semester, often specialized classes that students would be unlikely to find at other community colleges.

    Curricula are fine, not significantly different than what one would find at other community colleges with the same programs.

    The school's administrators seemed to be competent and tried to do their best. But they were in kind of an impossible position. The school seemed to have an extraordinarily low number of administrators, with many administrative functions being handled by often highly-politicized faculty committees. Decision-making was a nightmare and budgeting was a total disaster area. Nobody really knew how much money was coming in or going out. In other words, just by its structure, CCSF was kind of ungovernable.

    Buildings were often poorly maintained. CCSF's main campus was notorious for water stains on ceilings and boarded-up windows that never seemed to be fixed. Equipment and fixtures were often old and outmoded. But CCSF simulataneously spent massive amounts of money for new buildings for politically-connected constituencies, such as the recently-opened and hugely-expensive Chinatown building.

    And there's the report that more than 90% of CCSF's funds were found to be going to pay for employee benefits and compensation. In a way, CCSF seems to have effectively been run by the teacher's unions for many years, primarily for their members' benefit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2014
  19. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Those were two of the problems noted by the accreditor: not enough administrators for the school's size and full benefits for part-time employees.
     

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