Higher Doctorate

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by RFValve, Nov 8, 2013.

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  1. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Hi,

    Need some advice from members about a decision for a higher doctorate. I have completed a DBA from an Australian University, I currently work as a non tenure track Lecturer at a major University in Canada and have been trying to move into a tenure track position but have been blocked mainly because many schools prefer a PhD instead of a DBA while others are looking for faculty with degrees from more recognized schools.

    I have published about 20 journal articles and 10 book chapters and have approached the University of the West of England in the UK for a higher doctorate. UWE is not AACSB accredited but it is AMBA accredited that is the British equivalent. UWE is not a top tier school in the UK but has a decent rank (middle tier).

    The higher doctorate designation is not a PhD but a DSc (Doctor of Science), the University has approved my application but they are asking me for 10,000 British pounds for the assessment and examination of publications that might result in a DSc degree.

    Although the DSc is actually a higher degree than a DBA or PhD, I am concerned that this degree might not be understood as such as might be confused by the American DSc that seems to be more of a professional doctorate for targeted for technical careers and not academic.

    My final objective is to get a tenure track in either Canada, US or Europe at a good University and wonder if the DSc degree might with help me with this. The DBA from Australia is not good enough for my objective but I am afraid the DSc might not be seen even equivalent to a PhD although it is a higher level.

    There is also the risk that application will be rejected and will be 10,000 British pounds short after this. The University has accepted the application but there is no guarantee that the assessment would be successful.


    Has anyone in the forum has taken the higher doctorate route for academic positions?
     
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    RF - I think I understand your question but, to me, it seems impossible to answer. You want a tenure track teaching position in the USA or Canada or Europe (that's like half the world and maybe 75% of the universities in the world) and you want us to tell you which degree is going to get you to your destination. No one knows the answer. If anyone tells you that they know the answer to your question then you should immediately become suspicious (at least that's what I would do). Also, the idea of paying a school 16,000USD to evaluate my research articles without any guarantee of a successful outcome is absurd. I'd rather spend a fraction of that amount and earn a South African PhD as the cherry on top of your DBA. But that's just me. Good luck.
     
  3. distancedoc2007

    distancedoc2007 New Member

    I think you'd just be adding another misunderstood degree to the one you already have. Most people in these schools (especially in HR) are conformists who look for square pegs to fill square holes. Anything that is a departure from the routine causes stress, and most departments will take the easy way out and default to the familiar.
     
  4. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    University*of*Stellenbosch,*University*of*Stellenbosch*Business*School is accredited by aacsb. There was Degreeinfoer who was persueing a phd from the business school by distance ed.
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member


    Thanks for this feedback. I also explored the option of Phd by publication but even with existing publications, there is a considerable amount of work involved including the creation of a dissertation based on the existing publications and a doctoral dissertation defense.
    I was only able to find one school in the UK that does this and is AMBA accredited. There is still an investment of about 4 thousand pounds plus few trips (one for admission and other for defense) to be made.

    The other problem with PhDs by publication is that you don't get any specialization, you only get a PhD diploma out of this. Schools tend to ask for a transcript and might be surprised that you don't have one.

    The SA PhD wouldn't help me much as it is not the type of credential that academic employers are looking for (many might disagree) for jobs in Canada, USA, Europe or Middle east. My experience has been that anything that is not in North America, Australia or Europe is a hard sell. Most employers in academics are very snobbish, schools that are not ranked tend to be ignored as well.

    The higher doctorate is perhaps the easiest path for me at this point but the 16,000 bucks is a risky proposition. The DSc designation is also a hard sell in a market that seems to be more receptive of the PhD. There is also the issue of lack of transcript and specialization.

    Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2013
  6. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I knew a guy who had a PhD in Counseling Psych (or something like that) and he then earned another doctoral degree in a related field (like Developmental Psych) and they offered him a choice of designations, a second PhD or a DSc. He chose the DSc because he thought it was distinctive, because it said "higher doctorate." I wouldn't give up on this idea if I were you. I'm guessing that the people who work in academia know exactly what a DSc is/means.

    http://www.wbs.ac.uk/news/2012/07/27/Dean/of/Warwick
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2013
  7. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    I certainly am no expert here. One question I have is if you have asked the decision makers (e.g. Deans and department chairs) at your university and/or other universities as to whether or not such a degree will be sufficient to make you competitive for a tenure track position. Sure, folks may say that it will improve your C.V. But that is not the question. Will it improve it ENOUGH to get that tenure track position? The best people to ask are those who make those types of decisions.

    Also, is switching specialties an option for you. IIRC from your previous posts, you are in the Information Systems specialty, correct? You have mentioned on more than one occasion the opportunities for accountants and accounting professors. Is switching to accounting a viable option for you?

    I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. the trend is less tenure track and more adjuncts. It seems that unless someone is in an in demand field and/or they are willing to move to a small university in the middle of nowhere, tenure track positions are hard to come by.
     
  8. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    good points by you
     
  9. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    I agree with the above.

    Getting multiple doctorates may not be the right answer and is no guarantee that you'll get a tenure track position out of it, in addition to the possibility of paying the 16k and not getting awarded the doctorate. I speculate that you would get it, but am not certain.

    Have you prayed to the Lord and asked Him what direction He wants you to take?
     
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I tried this route, the problem is that I don't have any experience in Accounting. I completed a MSc in Accounting and Finance by using an accounting certification in the UK but this only has helped me to get part time gigs.
    Tenure track positions require a PhD in Accounting or a CA or CPA with tons of experience, I would need to get a PhD in this area to make up the lack of experience.

    At this point in my life, I am not willing to take more classes. The DSc option is almost like an Excelsior degree as it takes your current experience and qualifications.

    I am confident that I could get something with this degree if I moved to Europe but European schools do not offer tenure tracks but only renewable contracts that is what I have now. Salaries in European schools are in general lower than the ones in Canada or the US but there are exceptions. Life in Europe is also more expensive.

    thanks for the feedback.
     
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member


    Good advice, I think if I decide to go this route, I would need to get a government scholarship in order to minimize risk. There is no harm in sending publications but the 16K is a risk but if the government pays then there is no risk.

    The DSc is considered a University program, you need to register and send transcripts like any other program. I could try to get funding for it before starting this route.

    The only nice thing about this degree is that opens the doors also for engineering, my MS is in Engineering and most of my research is an overlap between engineering and business. The DBA designation is normally only good for business faculties.

    Thanks, your feedback is appreciated.
     
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I think the best would be to get a scholarship before going this route. If I get it, then there is no risk. I would ask the school if they could provide with a letter of acceptance so I could secure funding before enrolling.
     
  13. foobar

    foobar Member

    Think accounting information systems. A DBA in information systems, masters in accounting and a couple of appropriate publications should do the trick. I sent you a pm earlier - email me if you wish to explore this.
     
  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Thanks for this great feedback. I will send you a PM.
     
  15. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Thanks, it looks like a good program and wish would have done this one. However, at this point, I am not willing to write a dissertation, meet with supervisors and defend the dissertation. Any good doctorate would take at least 5 years part time.

    The DSc is granted based on your existing work and it is just a tag to move into better opportunities. However, as many stated, it might become just another diploma in my resume.

    Accounting certifications might be the way to go and just switch into accounting.
     
  17. Woho

    Woho New Member

    How about doing just a PhD via publication? If your publications are in decently ranked journals that should be relatively easy and cost effective to accomplish. I just discovered the other week that even Warwick, certainly one of the top 10 UK business schools, is offering this option: PhD by published work.
     
  18. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    Have you considered becoming a dean, here is an opportunity?
    NAIT | Career Opportunities

    You are obviously more intelligent than I am. I am a former director of finance at an educational institution. I turned down an interview for the position for dean of business at another instituition. I chose being the director of finance for a regional health authority.
    There is simply not enough money in teaching. There is a lot more in money in management. Tenureship is overrated. In exchange for job security you give up earning top dollars – that is why accounting professors may make little bit more because no well-paid accountant will gave that up that to study for a PhD just to be academia.
     
  19. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Thanks, the price tag is also in the 10,000 pounds range. Warwick is a much better school than UWE but most of these PhDs via publication still require a lot of work. There is an Oral defense and you would need to put the publications together in a dissertation.
    The only difference between a traditional and a PhD by publication is that you can shorten the program between 5 years to 1 or 2 years.
    There are also traveling expenses so the 10,000 can become 15,000 very quickly with a couple of trips.
    At least the ones that I looked at, they require two visits (one at the beginning and other at the end).

    Thanks, this looks like worth considering in any case.
     
  20. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    It depends, our tenure track positions in business pay in the 150K range to start. Top tier schools like UoT pay in the 200 or 300K range.

    As a Lecturer I make much less than this for the same work, I still do research and I have to do administration. The difference in pay is substantial and for this reason looking for a tenure track but most of our new hires have degrees from top schools.
     

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