Help! Someone explain the many Biblical masters programs, please!

Hey there, all,

I'm just about done figuring out where to attend for my AA/BA in basic Biblical studies. However, I'm lost after this with regard to the various masters programs. My problem is two-fold: 1) I don't understand the theory nor the abbreviations behind the various degrees; and 2) I'm unsure of which masters degree correspond with which doctorates. (I've seen some discussion on this site that scares me; one can end up with doing way too many credits or not enough towards a doctorate, depending on the masters program they've already accomplished! Not good if you're not in-the-know ahead of time.

Can some of you folks familiar with the various Biblical masters programs help educate me here? I'm 41 years old with no formal education at all, so I'm starting from scratch in all this. Think I got the BA info down, but now I need to plan ahead a little also.

Thanks much,

 

Hi Starkman

MA= 1,2 years grad work. May lead into PhD. prereq, BA

MDiv= 3 years grad work. professional ministerial degree. includes areas of study not specific to PhD but could nevertheless transfer into PhD. prereq, BA. MA may be applicable to MDiv as first year.

ThM= 4 years of grad work. (in at least ATS schools) (ie, 1 past MDiv) 4th year highly specific to area of doc work. prereq , MDiv which is first three years of ThM. ThM in many Us schools considered about 1/2 PhD coursework.Usually a thesis here required which is a prereq to some dissertation only types of docs. Frequently the holder of ThM enters ThD but may as well go PhD.

Therefore , short route= BA, MA, PhD (little as 8 years)
Long route = BA,( MA, not req) MDiv, ThM, ThD (perhaps 11 years. ThD generally based on ThM and consequently requires more time to complete than PhD. But likely no more useful.


Or, if you REALLY want a quick route, find as school as Trinity( in your former post) wherein you can with a 32 unit MA enter and finish the D.A. with a mere 50 more units, ie, a grand total of 82. Of course then the average pastor with an MDiv of 96 units has completed more grad work than you. But only you of the two can be referred to as "DR". Now that's really the shortcut!

Or then (know you wouldn't do this) take "Dr Withy's" route. Dr Withy whom I knew 40 years ago fancied himself an expert in eschatology. But fearing no one recognized his expertise, he proved it by purchasing a doc. One week he had nothing, neither BA, MA, MDiv, ThM-the next week "Dr Withy. :the quickest way of all!

 

Wow! Dr. Withy!!!!

THAT'S IT! DR. WITHY!


Alright! There it is, Bill! You're the man.
Everybody bow . . . "We're not worthy, Withy, we're not worthy!"

Yeah! And then we all woke up!

Hey, but for reals, Bill, thanks mucho for this info. Realistically, I'm wondering just how much faster one can complete degrees via distance-learning if you've got all day to study? I'm hoping to have more time than just a few days a week, you know.

Well, thanks again!

 

The truly sad thing is that Dr. Withy's scenario has been exponentially multiplied--so much so that you have ministers using the title "Dr." who have no other academic training at all.

 

Continuing...

Yeah, Russell, I can only imagine.
Nice thing is, though, at least it comes to the forefront sooner or later; either in the preaching/teaching or by someone exposing the fact.


For the Withys...

Oh, I wish I were a Withy
With Withy and his friends
Kept his college degree down
To just some fives and tens...
Bills, that is!

 

The BA, does it have to be in a theology related field or will a bachelor's in any other subject do as well? In this case, how much bridge-coursework can you expect to take?

Thank you,

Dennis Siemens

 

I would think that to go from BA to MA will generally require a cognate major in the undergrad work or do extra. Not, however, in BA to MDiv.

 

Starkman,

Bill did a good job of listing paths for you. Much depends on what you want to do with your education. If you are thinking of pastoring then an M.Div is likely the best graduate route. If you simply want increasing theological education then there are other routes for you to take and still others if you want to try for the long shot at a theological faculty slot.

When you decide on which undergraduate program you are going to pursue, let us know.

Good luck!

North

 

I have a BA in English from the University of Texas at San Antonio. I will soon begin a MA in Christian Ministry through Abilene Christian University. I could have chosen the MDiv, but can't do it all through DL, the MA I can. THe only difference between my BA and a Biblical degree would be that I wouldn't have to take Greek if my I had taken it for undergrad. Since I didn't, I have to take it now.

BTW, anyone know of a good DL Greek course? Thats one that ACU doesn't offer DL.

clint

 

Starkman,
Bill didn't mention that the Doctor of Ministry (D.Min.) is the doctorate that most follow the M.Div with (30-36 additional hours). While the M.Div. requires many more hours than most Masters, the Doctorate is much shorter than a Ph.D., Th.D. etc...

BTW, do you post over on Greg Boyd's board? I notice you're in Minnesota -- me too, in the Twin Cities area.

BLD

 

Try the Reformed Theological Seminary in Jackson, MS. At one time that had an online Greek, and I think, Hebrew course(s).

Good Luck.

 

If you are going to use the degree to pursue a pastorate may I suggest that you first contact your denomination headquarters and make sure they will accept the degree from the University that you plan to attend. For example, I am a Cumberland Presbyterian Pastor and we would not accept a degree from Abliene Christian because they are Church of Christ in doctrine neither would we accept a degree from Beeson Divinity School of Samford University because they are Baptist in doctrine. We would accept, quite naturally, Memphis Theological Seminary, Vanderbilt, Asbury, and others in the Reformed Tradition.

 

Re: Re: Help! Someone explain the many Biblical masters programs, please!

Hey,....... some Baptists are reformed as well. In fact, Mohler at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (KY) is a Calvinist. There is a book I have that I cannot lay hands on (not in the Pentecostal sense) which argues for the Calvinistic heritage of Baptists.

North

 

Re: Re: Re: Help! Someone explain the many Biblical masters programs, please!

Not to worry, North. I know that you are Pentecostal at heart, so go ahead and lay hands on that book--just don't do it suddenly.

 

Reformed

Some (eg Berkoff, Syst Theology, 428f) will argue with North that any Baptist would be Reformed since"Reformed" includes a view on the mode and meaning of water baptism contrary to Baptistic Theology .These would not say that the Baptists are Reformed despite any soterial affinity with Calvin.

I can see why churches would wish their pastors to attend denominational schools . Still I feel fortunate to have experience with Catholic, Nazarene, and Baptist schools. This "rounding out"has enabled me to speak with inerrancy on any theological subject! (?)

 

Hey North,

You said,

Here's my game plan. I'm 41 years old, I have no formal education (as I've mentioned before here), and I'm not in ministry yet, thanks to having messed things up a few times in my life, and having had that cause me a good 15 years in 'Midia'--boy, do I understand a little something of the 40 years Moses was out wandering around killing time!

Two things going on with me regarding ministry: first, I have a 'niche', I suppose you could say, as to how I approch God's Word when I both read it and teach it; second, I have a call to teach. I don't believe it's to teach professionally as in a university; rather, it would be for Bible studies (home and church), to write, and to lecture and preach. Namely, though, I'm interested in the personal aspecst of teaching--group and one-on-one.

With this in mind (after 25 years of being a Christian), I feel it's time to consolidate, round out, sharpen my years of study, and to learn to do scholarly research, particularly in my field of interests. This last part is most important to me; it's the main point for my desire for formal education, but I first need to bring into a single picture my years of scattered study. I need to do this rather quickly, because I'm pretty far behind the power curve, and I'd like not to get on with it, you know!

At first I was thinking of Trinity College of the Bible. The accreditation thing wasn't an issue because I wasn't wanting to go professional. Also, they have a rather nice online research facility--OCLC Firstsearch. (I don't know what other distant-education facilities offer, but this is supposedly very thorough. Perhaps some of you folks who know can comment about this.) Anyway, I've decided it'd probably be best to work with an accredited facility--this board's helped out here. Thank you!

As far as a degree goes, well, a masters that focuses on developmental research would be what I'm after. A doctorate? I don't need a Ph.D, because I'm, again, not wanting to go professional. I think an accredited masters would earn do enough for my education and my self esteem.

Well, that's about it, North. Any ideas?

Starkman



Hey BLD,

Yup! I be the Starkman on Greg's site. Cool! How long you been there? I've been there off and on since, oh, Nov or Dec of last year, I believe it's been. THAT SITE is what really brought all that I've said above into perspective! It was, I believe, God's means of taking me to the next step for ministry; education! Boy, did I realize I needed it after being on that site for a while. And hey, you're in MN, too, eh! Way cool! My wife and I lived in Farmington until Dec of last year. Now we're in Barrett--a place where even God says, "Barrett . . . Barrett . . . I know I've heard of it . . ." Yeah! Sure you have, God, sure you have! Ha! I drove transit bus in and out of the Twin Cities. Now? Oh, I'm unemployed! And that's another story in itself, I'll tell ya!

Hey, have a good one,

 

I am also nearly a Minnesotan. I live about a half mile from the state line--close enough to be subjected to regular doses of reports on the antics of Gov. Ventura during the evening news. I also am an avid listener of Minnesota Public Radio. I think I'm more aware of what's going on in Minnesota than in my own state of North Dakota.

Starkman, I don't think you've spelled this out for us yet: are you concerned Bible within any specific denominational or confessional setting? Are you Baptist? Reformed? Assemblies of God? Does this matter, or are you willing to study pretty much anywhere? There are a number of good programs out there; however, if there's a specific perspective from which you'd care to engage in your study and research, this certainly will help narrow the field of prospective schools considerably.

Cory Seibel

 

Hey Cory,

You asked what denomination I am? None, particularly. I'm conservative, in that I believe in the standard orthodoxy of basic, essential Biblical doctrine: the Trinity, the Deity of Jesus, salvation by faith in Him, inerrancy of Scripture (the originals), etc. I am charismatic only in that I believe in the same workings of the Spirit in NT times being operative for today, but I do not 'operate' in any gifts. (Hey, I've asked, but He ain't given me much else yet but teaching ability!)

I want an education at a facility that's not heavily oriented toward a particular doctrinal belief. I suppose I won't have to worry about that too much for the AA degree. But afterward, I guess I'd have to say that I'd prefer more of a "let the student decide" approach to education.

Oh, and you're near the border, eh? Alright!

Thanks,

 

Where are you considering doing your Bachelors??

North

 

Re: Re: Help! Someone explain the many Biblical masters programs, please!

Howard: That is a very good avise. Myself, I decided to teach Zen Buddhism, Soto Shu lineage, and the Soto Shu Headquarters informed me that a. they would only accept a degree from their own university, Komazawa University in Japan, as an appropriate degree and b. in order to receive a teacher's license one would in addition to their degree also need to spend at least 1000 days in a training monastry in Japan, followed by an extensive practical examination - this is to make sure that you really have learned what you will talk about later. To me, that makes sense.
Adelheid