Learning for the Love of It

Just got an email from someone I don't know but am impressed already by him.

Jack is enrolled in unaccredited doctoral program and through a mutual internet friend learned of my interest in Unizul. He wonders if he should change schools. Jack wants a doctorate so that he can learn more. (not earn more-though there is nothing wrong with being paid according to your academic accomplishments).

What so impresses me about Jack's zeal is that has it despite his condition. He describes himself as 76 years old, having poor eyesight with three macular peals, and suffers from losses of energy.

Jack writes that it is "very encouraging" to continue on with his study. I hope I still feel that way in 15 more years!

 

Good on 'im. Learning should be a lifelong process.

But a doctorate, accredited or otherwise, won't help him learn more. Is there a point to this?

 

why won't a doctorate help him learn more?

 

Because learning and credentials are two different things, and often mutually exclusive.

Whatever learning the person wants to do can most certainly be done outside the context of a degree program. So the degree itself becomes the issue.

Can someone take a doctorate from an unaccredited school and learn a lot? Most certainly. But how much he/she learns does not affect the nature of the credential one iota.

 

Rich

The degree program can often provide a structure and guidance for the learning to occur and therefore the degree program and the learning frequently are mutually inclusive.

You admit that one can take even an unaccredited doctorate and "learn a lot." I say "Jack wants a doctorate (ie go through that experience) so he can learn more." How are our two statements at odds?


Dennis

My point is that Jack at 76 is not just sitting on his xxx academically. Thot some might like this story..if you don"t, that's OK too!

 

OK Rich - suggestions please?

Good on Jack - I hope that I never get past being able to learn either, and am still OK at 76.

I understand Jack's position and want to revisit Music, look at some areas in History, and am involved currently in some areas of Cults/Religion. I obviously can't do everything at once...

My options are:

1 - I can use my library card.
2 - I can use the web
3 - I can enrol in a series of traditional degree/degree programs.
4 - Write and publish articles.
5 - Find a unsenet type group, moderated or otherwise.

The downsides are:

1 - No structure, only self imposed discipline, and where is the interaction with other similar learners, collegiality?
2 - This may over time develop within a network but at best, that will be the only benefit over [1]
3 - I have found one degree arrangement in an 'interdisciplinary arts' faculty, but as my previous [academci & professional]qualifications are not in these areas, I am starting from scratch in every respect - not acceptable after 53 years of education [considering it starts at 5 years...]
4 - The line up for freelancer journals is quite long, and the entry to peer publications is through the boys club I don't have access to.
5 - The 'loose canon' syndrome like we experiecne[d] at a.e.d. in quite prevalent, and 'moderation' has its own et of problems

OK Rich - taking my case, what do you suggest?

Peter French

 

Jack's story is kind of inspiring. I see myself in him, since I will probably be studying until the day I die too. Life would be boring unless I was having new ideas constantly.

I guess that there are three levels to this.

First, you can just study. No school is necessary. Accreditation is irrelevant. That's why they have libraries.

But that's awfully lonely and isolating. There is a lot of value, both socially and intellectually, in being able to discuss your ideas with other people and hear their ideas in return. Schools are a natural place to find others interested in advanced and arcane subjects. So attending school is the second level.

Earning a degree isn't the point, and accreditation is still of little relevance. Even if a degree is earned, a senior citizen probably won't be using it professionally, so who cares who accepts it? The issue here is whether the classes and faculty are credible enough to make the intellectual experience worthwhile. A CA-approved university might work very well here.

But for some people, earning a degree is important, if only as a goal that gives structure to the pursuit. And senior citizens still have social lives and plenty of personal pride. They are hurt when other people smugly dismiss what they are doing. They might even have trouble accepting it themselves, if it desn't seem completely real and legitimate.

So I guess students need to ask themselves if they really believe in what they are doing and are comfortable with it. If it generates any embarassment, perhaps a more credible option is needed. That's the third level.

Unfortunately, most doctoral programs are aimed squarely at young academic careerists. The average age of graduate students in most universities is below 30. Some prestige universities simply refuse to accept senior citizens, period. (That's probably illegal, but it's true.) There was a professor from Columbia University who used to post to AED who said that flat out. The university has a limited number of openings, all their students receive institutional support, and it just isn't in the interest of the university to waste that on anyone over 50.

So I'd suggest programs with a more "alternative" bent to them. Union Institute for example. CIIS or ITP. Unfortunately, most of these schools charge perhaps $15,000/year, and offer few if any assistantships. If you take a while earning a doctorate, it could suck up the better part of $100K. Can a retiree on a fixed income afford that?

Zululand starts to look good...

 

Learning for the Love of It...

One of my favorite customers is Grace, who at 86 is getting her doctorate. I have done several searches for her on the critical incidents method and have supplied her with many ERIC documents over the past couple of years. She is in the last stages of her dissertation.

Although I have no idea whether she plans to "do" anything with her degree, I think it's great that she's getting it!

Judy