Advice Needed - UVA vs. IUE + masters

Hi everyone!
I have a decision that I am not sure about. I would love if you would be willing to tell me what you would do in my place what you think is the best option in the long run.

Here is my two options:

B.S. Engineering Science at UVA
Cost remaining: $30,000
Time remaining: 3 years

B.S. Mathematics at Indiana University east.
Cost remaining: $7,000
Time remaining: 1.5 years

I got into both programs, and they are both online… I have to make the last minute decision of what is the best option and what one I drop before classes start.

My dilemma is this: It looks like I might be able to complete the B.S. in Mathematics and get a M.S. in Engineering in about the same amount of time and for around the same cost as going to UVA. For example if I did a M.S. in Systems engineering at George Mason University.

I don’t really like Math and would like to end up in an engineering related job. However, would it be the logical choice to finish Math and get a masters in engineering if I can do it for around the same time and money? Or is UVA a good enough school that it would not be good to give up the chance?

What do you all think? What would you do in my case?

 

I like UVA alot, but they aren't really a great engineering school. VT holds that distinction in the state of Virginia.
IU East isn't really well known, sort of similar to UVA Wise, but for the cost and time savings I'd lean that way. If you go the IU East route you can complete the bachelors and be most of the way through a masters degree from a school with better brand recognition for the same cost and time commitment as what the UVA degree would set you back.

 

Another point to consider is that "engineering science" isn't a traditional engineering major; furthermore, the engineering science program at UVa doesn't appear to have professional accreditation from ABET. So this degree may be considered "engineering lite" by some.

This doesn't mean that the degree is worthless. However, it may not have as much value as a traditional, ABET-accredited engineering degree.

 

Usually people who want an engineering degree wind up taking a hard look at the Dakota programs.

 

And when they do, this is what they see:

- Fully ABET accredited.
- Take 6+ years.
- 135 credits needed
- at $911.38 per credit for non-residents, which works out to $123,036 (assuming no transfer credit).
- Plus the costs of travel and lodging to North Dakota during the summer, to meet the lab requirements.

So usually the people who look at the UND programs wind up doing something else.
In fact, I'm not sure that anyone in the history of degreeinfo has ever actually graduated from, or even enrolled in, a UND distance engineering program.
But we do mention this option frequently.

In fairness, the UND programs do offer significant tuition discounts to residents of North Dakota, neighboring states and provinces, and other western states in the WUE system.

 

Thanks guys for the replies! I did look into the North Dakota option but at the end of the day the price is what was too much for me.

I was worried about the engineering science degree not being considered a "real" engineering degree since it is not ABET accredited. However, they did say you can transfer on campus for your last year and finish with one of their ABET accredited engineering degrees. Do you think that is a good idea?

Also, they said if I was able to get at least a 3.0 GPA in their undergraduate program I would have a virtual "guaranty" of being allowed into their graduate school.

If I went to Indiana University East is it likely that UVA would not accept me for graduate school if I pulled out of their undergraduate program? Right now I am in both UVA and IUE trying to decide which one to go with before classes start. :-(

I did talk to Virginia Tech and they said that they liked math majors for their M.S. in engineering so I was thinking I might be able to get a M.S. in Engineering from there if I did the math option.

Since Indiana University East is lower ranked then UVA would I have I hard time getting into a good graduate school if I did Indiana? Sometimes I hear that it is your GPA that matters for jobs and graduate school... other time that it is the school matters. What do you think? Would this apply at all in my case?

 

The option to transfer into UVA as an on-campus student is an interesting opportunity, but is that something you could do? Is relocating to Charlottesville an option for you?

I don't think not attending UVA for undergrad would prevent you being admitted into a graduate degree program there later on if you're a competitive applicant.

In truth, both GPA and the prestige of the school matter when applying to graduate school, but engineering graduate programs seem to be less concerned with where the undergraduate degree was earned when compared against programs like medicine, business and law.

 

And there is one other important factor: grad schools also care about standardized tests, like the MCAT, LSAT, and GRE. Engineering grad schools (including UVa) typically require GRE scores. A high GRE score will get the attention of any grad school, even if you went to a low-ranked school as an undergrad.

 

OK, so now I have conflicting advice. On the one hand I want to say that I'm all about costs and I'll never criticize for choosing the least expensive alternative. At the same time, sometimes you get what you pay for. As has been said before, engineering science is not engineering. Will that degree get you where you want to go? Similarly, if you go the Math route, won't you be short on engineering prerequisites for admission to an Engineering Masters program. I guess the thing that stands out for me is that you said that you want to wind up in engineering and that you don't really like math. Doesn't that kinda answer your question?

 

You undergraduate school reputation might not contribute your successful admission to grad school. I have never seen any difficulty, but a little in Law and Medical fields. Your GPA and GRE are more important. I graduated from Troy University, but I was able to get into Southern Methodist University and Georgetown University.

 

I agree with Kizmet...If you don't like Math, then don't go for Math major. You will lose your interests, then getting bad grades to lower GPA. Then no graduate school for you unless UoPhoenix and AshfordU love you.

 

I agree with AUTiger. The best ROI would probably be to go to Indiana and then a pretty solid graduate program. UVA is a great school but I don't really think "Wow" when it comes to engineering. VTech beats them hand down. If you want a Virginia school on your resume then VTech has a pretty nice selection of engineering graduate degrees. I'm confused about the "not liking math". Every engineer I know says that engineering requires a ton of math so it's no escaping either way.

 

Hi,

Thanks for the replies everyone! I appreciate everyone being willing to give me guidance on this as it is a very hard decision for me.

I guess I did not completely explain... It's not like I "hate" math. I currently have a 4.00 GPA so it's not like I am bad at math, but what I have found is in upper level math courses there is a tendency to focus on theoretical proofs of mathematical concepts instead of practical applications.

I have always been a creative, design oriented person. I enjoy creating things... even if it is just web development or designs in CAD software.

At the beginning of this year I decided to take some more engineering classes. I took statics, dynamics, and mechanics of materials. What I found is this... In every class, there was a basic trend that I really enjoyed. For example, when I approached a problem, I started with the graphical representation of the problem, analyzed what engineering concepts and equations applied, and then used math to solve for the answer.

In all three of these courses basically all the problems involved math, but it had a practical method to it based off the engineering equations and methods. For me the term "math" has come to imply more of a mathematical proof of a mathematical concept so I guess that is what I meant by saying that I did not really like "math" compared to engineering.

I guess I am just saying that the practical application of mathematics is what gets me excited.

If I go to UVA they will not accept the credit that I have through college board CLEP exams. This is what will cause it to be 3 years at UVA vs. 1.5 years at IUE.

It's not like I think I can't do the B.S. in math and I am sure I would get a good GPA, but if I did do that option I would not want to stop there. I would want to get a masters in engineering. However, if I did the UVA option I would probably not do a masters... at least that is my guess since I would have to start working to pay of the loan.

What I am really torn about is this: since math at IUE will be so much less expensive and faster it seems to make more sense to finish math and then get an engineering masters. On the other hand, I like the "sound" of UVA and the classes look interesting. As pointed out, it is not a "real" engineering degree and it is also not ABET accredited. However, the head of the department said that they have 100% job placement for the program. The start up salary is about $70,000. I live in Virgina, about an hour or two from UVA, so the option of switching to being on campus for the last year to get an ABET degree is a possibility.

On the other hand, if I do math at IUE the course load will not be that bad so I will have time to do an intern next summer, which might help me get a job, and take any engineering prerequisites I need for a M.S. in Engineering. This is because quite a bit of my remaining credit at IUE will be exams like CLEP.

If I do a masters in Systems engineering from George Mason University after I finished math from IUE, they said that I would have all the prerequisites. It would only take 1 to 1.5 years to complete, and everyone has been getting jobs right out of school with a startup salary of about $90,000.

To sum it all up... In light of all this extra information, if you look at my interests and the fact that I am already 21, do you think the it is the most responsible thing to finish up the math and then pursue the engineering instead of jumping to engineering right away at UVA even though I like the overall school better then IUE?

 

There is an important piece of info that you are still leaving out. How do you perform on standardized tests?

If you go to IUE, then you are a disadvantage in two respects. First, the school has a weaker reputation than UVa. Second, a math degree is probably not as good for engineering grad school as an "engineering science" degree.

But there is a tool for compensating for these deficiencies: the GRE exam. If your grad school application includes high GRE scores (particularly in math), then engineering grad schools will be much more likely to accept you and potentially grant financial aid, regardless of your undergraduate school or major. In this case, the IUE path becomes more viable, with more grad school options.

Have you taken the ACT, or preferably the SAT ? If not, maybe you should. This will give you an indicator of your standardized test performance. Or get a GRE study book and take a sample exam at home.

 

Ok. Here is the info on that. I do not consider myself a "good" test taker but here is some info so you can help me decide if I can past the GRE.

SAT: Math-650 , Reading-650 , Writing-470(definitely my weak point!)

CLEP exams: Have taken about 27 credits so far and have never failed any of them, my highest score on the 20-80 scale was 73 and the lowest was around 62 or something. (Passing is 50.)

The only kind of test that I am very very bad at is AP's. I have never been able to get above a 3. On BC calculus AP I got a three. It seemed like I knew it a lot better then that, but I guess AP's are not my thing. For example, when I took the second semester of Calculus in college, I got 99% so I did do a lot better in the class than trying to test out.

So, what do you think? If I am not good at the AP format, does this mean that I will not be able to pass the GRE? Is the GRE closer to the SAT or AP's?

If I am better at taking the course then testing out, would it be safer to go to UVA? If I decided to go to Goerge Mason University for a M.S. in systems engineering would I be able to get in without to high of a GRE score?

Thanks in advance!

 

Your test scores aren't bad. If you studied, I'm sure your GRE scores would be fine.
Another thing, engineering graduate programs give out A LOT of scholarship money. I mean a lot. You shouldn't expect to be paying much for a MS in engineering (assuming you're attending full-time).
Also, I'd be careful at accepting those salary numbers. Schools use some questionable math to come up with those figures. Like saying they have "100% job placement" will take into account people working part-time jobs with no relation to their degree. Then for their annual salary figures they will only include the people working in the industry.

 

I got the GRE practice book. It looks like the math part is easy at least. I think the writing part will be the hardest for me. What score would I need on the essays to get into an ok school for an M.S. in engineering?

So that means that it might be even more of a good idea to do the math with a M.S. in engineering. It would be great to graduate with little or no debt!

Wow, I had not thought of that. The number from GMU did seem a little too good to be true. When they told me I would basically have a job straight out of school at around $90,000 startup salary with no previous work experience, it made me wonder why more people weren't becoming systems engineers!

 

Your SAT scores are much higher than the norm for IUE undergraduates. If you can get similar scores on the GRE -- and you probably can -- then this will definitely help to offset IUE's lack of reputation.

In fact, your SAT scores are also higher than the norm for George Mason undergraduates. Their grad programs won't necessarily have the same selectivity as their undergrad programs, but this is a good first guess.

I would finish up in math at IUE. If possible, take physics, chem, and computer science courses in addition to the math. Try for good GRE scores. Apply to numerous grad programs (including GMU, but also bigger name programs). If your GRE scores are good, be sure to include them in your application, even for schools like GMU where the GRE is not required. They may not require the GRE, but they will definitely check it out if you provide it.

 

Thanks! I really appreciate all of you helping me sort out my options. I like your idea of applying to multiple graduate schools. I'm thinking that will increase my chance of getting into a good school for my masters. I am a little worried about the essays on the GRE. Do you know what is the minimum score I would need to get on the essays to be able to get into a relatively good graduate engineering program?