Rushmore MBA

Is anyone familiar with Rushmore University's online MBA program?

 

Rushmore has been mentioned many times in these parts and I recall few posts that treated them favorably. The usefulness of such a degree is extremely limited given its lack of recognized accreditation. With so many better choices available, it would not be a good choice for most people.



Tom Nixon

 

Rushmore's accreditation page was one of the more convoluted pages I've ever read. Now that Rushmore has WAUC accredidation, which is not recognized by the US DOE, their accreditation page is MUCH shorter. However, they moved much of the other verbiage to another page.

They have moved the "campus" about over the years. They were in So. Dakota for awhile, now it appears they get their mail in the Grand Caymans. Could be that it was getting more difficult to be state approved in the US. I did not see (based on a quick read, admittedly) if they have any state approvals.

However, what is interesting is that the page touts a series of large companies that urge their employees to take their degrees at Rushmore. Another paragraph says their students and alumni work at several companies.

Well, they do offer some corporate training programs that have some benefits, but likely not their degree programs. I don't know which corporations would 'urge' mtheir students to go to Rushmore. Two of the companies in the one paragraph that listed where students work at I KNOW would not reimburse students for their tuition unless the school was regionally accredited. One I know because I worked there- as a manager- and the reimbursement program was very rigid. The other company I know about because my better half worked there, some of my MBA classmates, and some of my current students, and the company is VERY strict about only reimbursing for regionally accredited schools. If one got by, which in a large company is possible, the company I worked for would defintely go back to the employee and want the money back.

As fot he one paragraph that says their students and alumni are working at these companies, I would not doubt it. The degree may not have been a requirement for the job, or was obtained after employment. It would be like the school I earned my California 'Certified Massage Practitioner' advertising they have students working in fortune 500 companies. It happens, but not because of the certification.

I read one MBA student paper (or tried to), and found its organization clumsy and the topic under developed. I only received something this bad twice from my undergrad UoPhx students.

On the positive side, I know for a fact they honor their money back guarantee. I've received a couple overseas queries as to whether they thought it would be possible to get their money back, and later heard they did. So, I can say in that regard they follow through.

I hope this helps,

 

Worthless, stick to regionally accredited schools.

Eli

 

Avoid it

Rushmore degrees are as effective as condoms riddled with pin holes.

 

Thanks all, for your responses. They were really helpful to me in making my decision.

 

There is an earlier post where George Brown found a site for a graduate in Holland and this 'graduate' put his papers up for all to see - let's put it this way, when the Australian Senate was told that Greenwich University's work was less that high school standard, they hadn't seen Rushworths as it is less than less than that.

A condom with two holes - one each end - has more value.

Peter French

 

A marketing trademark of unaccredited and often less than wonderful schools. This is often a not so well-veiled attempt to legitimize otherwise illegitimate programs.

 

Dee if you want an on-line MBA and are stationed overseas (US Army???) then try Touro University. They give military a discount on tuition that means after TA pays its portion your degree is ***FREE***. Textbooks are on line and ***FREE***. The degree is 100% on line. We have a couple of people who have or are completing Touro's MBA.

Good luck & don't waste your time on an unaccredited degree or you may end up in deep kimchi.

North

 

Thanks North. Yes I'm active duty army. You are right of course. I did see an Advertisement about Touro in the Army Times. I will definitely check it out. Thanks again.

 

North is correct. Many of Touro's students are military.

My experience with Touro was excellent. You can check numerous threads related to Touro in this forum by using the search engine (at the top of the page).

Good luck..
Eli

 

Find the portion of the site that shows their students' papers. Read a couple of them. That should give you an idea of the quality.

 

As a current Rushmore student, I thought I’d offer my two cents. I’ll start off by saying this program is definitely not for everyone. As Tom pointed out, the lack of lack of recognized accreditation could be a problem for many. The program can be a suitable choice for those of us who are already professionally established and seeking to expand our breadth of knowledge in specific areas of business.

I should point out that I’ve always been an excellent researcher and a “not so great” test taker, so a research based program works best for the way I learn.

I’d also say that my experience with Rushmore’s faculty has been positive to date. The professors, comprised largely of highly respected professionals, are extremely attentive and respond to questions/requests for assistance promptly. I personally think the writing lab could be improved but I’ll save that discussion for another day).

Fortunately, Rushmore is no longer advertising WUAC accreditation (I personally lobbied against affiliation with the WUAC so I was glad t to see references to the organization go). In recent discussions with Dr. Cox, he stated that plans for seeking accreditation had been placed on the backburner in favor of marketing the program directly to corporations. This strategy seems more in line with his earlier corporate education experience and in the long run probably fills a more unique niche. After all, there are literally hundreds of online and residency programs competing for student $$. Being able to deliver a unique program on business by business basis is an interesting idea. Corporations like Intel (and I believe fiat) have, or are in the process of developing custom MBA programs for their employees, and I personally feel that this trend will only increase.

That being said, I do feel that this type of education does have its limitations. I personally have a difficult time with QA, so a more structured curriculum in the quantitative subjects would be of great benefit to me. I’m not sure that any distance program will meet my need. I’m currently using “Quantitative Analysis for Management” (Bonini) as a primer for a paper I’m working on, but I may need to take some residential based course work in this area.

I do have to take issue with Russ’ comments regarding student papers. I live and work in Silicon Valley, and thought I should point out that I’ve seen less than stellar work from graduates of SJSU (I believe this is where you earned your MBA). Now don’t take this the wrong way; I’ve met and worked with several very bright people who graduated from San Jose State. I’ve also known several who were dumb as gnats. Of course this is the case with almost all schools. Readers should keep in mind that many for Rushmore’s students, English is a second language. Most of them do a much better job of expressing themselves in my native tongue than I do in theirs. Of course, this is where the writing lab is supposed to help, but in my experience, most of the editing tends to deal more with function than style. I feel it would benefit the students if greater emphasis were placed on style, thought organization, etc.

Would I recommend the program? Not for those who are looking to a degree as a means to landing a job. Rushmore should only be considered by those who can truly benefit form this type of education. One size definitely does not fit all.

 

The only situations where such a degree could possibly do any good is where no one cares or no one asks about the nature of the school. I don't care how hard one must work, or in what fashion one learns to earn the degree, it is still a very bad choice for many people. Hardly something worth recommending to others, even if it is perfect for you.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting you or anyone else should or should not pursue a Rushmore MBA. But the methods you chose to defend/describe it are unfortunate. And inaccurate.

 

Some of your points are valid; however, others appear to come from a biased position. The fact that someone does not agree with your point of view does not make their position “unfortunate” or “inaccurate.” On the surface, it appears that you’ve chosen mischaracterize the nature of my post to help support you’re your obvious disdain for Rushmore’s programs.

>“But you can do that anywhere. You don't need the context of a degree program.”

True, but if I follow this train of thought to its logical conclusion, why go to school at all?

>“Good, but not good enough. That they've halted their fraudulent behavior doesn't make them honest”

Lighten Up. I’m not sure what it is you’re charactering as fraudulent behavior. Is it the fact that they initially accepted WUAC accreditation and then decided against it? Or that fact that Dr. Cox takes the opinions of students seriously? If I’m correct, my statements about the WUAC were framed around my personal opinion that affiliation organization hurts more than it helps. I don’t believe I advocated any other position.

>“This is jive. There is no reason both cannot be accomplished. Unless, of course, they are unaccreditable. That, I believe.”

They have indeed decided to put plans for accreditation on the backburner –. Does this mean that Rushmore is currently unable to obtain accreditation? In it’s current form quite possibly. As far as I know, there are currently no research based “accredited” MBA programs. I may be wrong, but I have looked. Does this mean that their program is sub par? I would argue no. When the University of Phoenix first opened its doors, “traditional” academia initial thumbed its nose at the program and even made efforts to put the University out of business (look for the CNN Pinnacle program on UOP’s founder). The fact that something is new does not make it wrong. Every trend has begin somewhere, and the road will always be dotted with detractors. Maybe this style of learning will grow, maybe Rushmore will fail. I can’t predict the future. I will say that there is growing disdain for value of traditional MBA curriculum. For an interesting discussion on the subject see last month’s Business 2.0.

>“I assume Intel and Fiat are not turning to Rushmore for their custom MBA programs. I cannot imagine the irresponsible HR director or training director that would turn to an unaccredited school with no structured program to build an MBA. As both an MBA and a corporate trainer, I find this too funny. I'd love to hear which corporations, if any, have partnered with Rushmore.”

I don’t believe I insinuated that hey had. My comments were on the growing trend in this area. I’m not sure who is administering Intel’s program (and if I’m not mistaken, Fiat’s program was developed internally). From what I understand, this is a recent change in strategy. It could be that the program would be marketed more as corporate training as was the case with Dr. Cox’s earlier businesses. They obviously had corporate clients in the past. As a “corporate trainer” do you only provide educational resources from accredited programs? If so, I would submit that your experience may not representative of industry as a whole. I know of many organizations that embrace “non traditional” training in the work place.

> “Please don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting you or anyone else should or should not pursue a Rushmore MBA”

I won’t even bother… I guess that’s the please don’t sue me disclaimer?


Again, I’m not arguing that this program is for everyone (I believe I said that from the get-go). I was simply providing the personal opinion of someone who has been involved with the program. If I’m not entitled to an opinion, than forgive me.

 

If you mean "biased" as in "prejudiced," no. If you mean "biased" as in "against," yes.

I take it Rushmore doesn't actually partner with any companies to customize an MBA program for them. I'll look forward to hearing about the first. But using that as an excuse for not being properly accredited doesn't jibe.

Gee, I don't recall indicating you or anyone else isn't entitled to an opinion. In fact, I took the liberty of expressing mine whle responding to yours. It doesn't agree with yours, however. Others can decide who and what to accept and/or believe. In fact, it wasn't your opinion with which I took issue. Instead, most of my response focused on the alleged claims by Rushmore.

The limitations of the Rushmore degree are factual and obvious. Lack of recognized accreditation, claims of bogus accreditation, and license-hopping from state-to-state are just three. (The Cayman Islands! Really. )

 

I wouldn’t have an issue with your opinion had it not been framed the way it was. My initial comments were twisted to fit an argument that I wasn’t making. After exploring the boards a bit, I now realize that “attack” mode may be a “stylistic” thing with you.

“I take it Rushmore doesn't actually partner with any companies to customize an MBA program for them. I'll look forward to hearing about the first. But using that as an excuse for not being properly accredited doesn't jibe.”

You’re twisting again. As I said in my previous post, this is a new strategy (new as in two weeks). The strategy may not work, then again it may. It will definitely take a bit of time to see the results either way. Also, I’m not sure that the goal is to create custom MBA programs for corporations as much as it is to create custom programs for the employees of these corporations. I do know that the market shift is toward businesses, but I should be careful about stating facts when I don’t have all of the details. Again – my original point was that custom MBA programs are increasing in popularity in corporate America. I’m sure that there are going to be many traditional MBAs who are going to take issue with the recent studies showing that the degrees currently offered by most “accredited” universities have little or no true intrinsic value in the workplace (unless of course you went to Harvard or Yale). I’m not sure if you earned your MBA through traditional or non traditional means, but I’m curious as to how you would value your own MBA. I’m not aware of any corporate trainer positions that require an MBA. Did you hold this position prior to earning the degree? This is not intended as slight by any means (I’ve done a bit of corporate training myself) I’m just wondering if you’re doing what you thought you’d be doing after B School. I only ask because I know several people who aren’t.

I’m not sure that I framed the Rushmore’s new strategy as an excuse for not seeking accreditation. To the contrary, I believe I conceded that a research based MBA program may not be “accreditable” at this time. It’s not unusual for unique programs to face opposition while in their early stages. As stated in my earlier post, UOP faced the same opposition early on. Academia classified the school as a diploma mill and pushed to put the University of Pheonix out of business. I should also point out that UOP operated without accreditation in its early days.

I’ve excerpted the opening comments from the transcript of the CNN interview with John Sperling, (UOP’s founder) below.

SPERLING: Fortunately, there were no laws governing institutions of higher education so all I did was start a corporation and name it the University of Phoenix.

SCHUCH: All John Sperling did was create what has become the nation's largest for profit university and certainly the most unusual. Its 74,000 students must hold full-time jobs. Its 52 campuses in 35 states are actually housed in office buildings and there are no dorms, no student unions and certainly no football teams. But the unusual university that John Sperling created in 1978 has become the talk of higher education, not all of it flattering.

While his peers criticize Sperling's concept, they can't argue with his credentials, including Ph.D. from Cambridge University.

(on camera): You were originally criticized as being a diploma mill.

SPERLING: A diploma mill.

SCHUCH: A diploma mill.

SPERLING: Right.

SCHUCH: Just giving them out without accreditation, without any foundation.

SPERLING: Yes. Yes. That's true.

SCHUCH: And what did that make you think?

SPERLING: Well, the thing that helped a lot is that because I was a legitimate academic, it was difficult. They couldn't say that I wasn't an academic. They just said that I was a rogue academic.

SCHUCH (voice-over): But Sperling defied the educational establishment that tried to run him out of town.

SPERLING: I had students but no college so I set up the University of Phoenix.

SCHUCH (on camera): Who wouldn't have thought that there wasn't a University of Phoenix? I mean you came in and invented it.

SPERLING: Yes.

SCHUCH: People could not have been happy about that.

SPERLING: Well, they weren't happy. They were incensed that this California carpetbagger had come down here and stolen the name of their fair city.

SCHUCH (voice-over): It took a while, but Sperling is gaining the grudging respect of his peers and the not so grudging respect of Wall Street, after the University of Phoenix reported revenues of a half a billion dollars last year. The parent company, Apollo Group, is doing even better.


The limitations of the Rushmore degree are factual and obvious. Lack of recognized accreditation, claims of bogus accreditation, and license-hopping from state-to-state are just three. (The Cayman Islands! Really)

I’d concede that that the limitations of an unaccredited degree are indeed factual. I’d take this argument a step further and say that, in many circles the value of ANY distance learning degree can be limiting. I’m not arguing the value of regional accreditation. I simply believe that, in time unique programs like Rushmore’s will gain wider acceptance (I’m talking format not schools here). As I said before, there are elements of the program that I’m not happy with; the Cayman move is one. Again, just my 2 cents.

 

MBAs by research are accreditable, in Canada the MBA at Laval University is research based and it is accredited by the AACSB. What I found interesting about Rushmore is that in spite of its poor web site and bad reputation, it manages to attract top quality faculty, I wonder why a professor with a PhD from Harvard would be associated with such a "wonderful" school. Do they get paid good enough to give up their reputation?

Most of these schools pay a couple of hundred to supervise a dissertation, I wonder if Rushmore is the exception and this is how it manages to attract good faculty .

 

I stand corrected. I’ve never heard of Lavel. Is this a distance program? How does AACSB accreditation of a non US school work. I’m guessing that this doesn’t count as “National Accreditation” since it’s a foreign institution (but I may be incorrect) I’m still having a difficult time wading through the benefits of non RA accreditation.

 

Ahhh, Quebec. I should have taken French instead of Spanish It looks like this school offers only residential programs, but I’m in need of a translator.