Degree Advice for Teaching Business (ACCT & FIN) at Lower Tier/Online Schools

Hi. I am in a B&M state school MBA with a finance emphasis program (let's say #150-#200 national undergrad ranking and #100-#125 undergrad business school ranking, MBA program is currently unranked but online program is - all this is from USNews). I am a young person with minimal work experience, but lots of self-employment talents and successes to show in a resume.

I am interested in, upon graduation, finding a job at a community college, smaller liberal arts school, or "comprehensive" school where a Masters degree is their highest offering. Teaching online would be great too. I know that for lower ranked places, typically what is needed to teach in a subject is a Masters plus 18 graduate hours in that subject. Right now, I have 18+ hours in finance, though I can stay for another semester and possibly obtain a MS Finance as well. Also, I am debating on if I should stay a year and do a MS Accounting instead, since I don't like the financial engineering focus of the finance department.

However, my undergrad major was in Business Administration w/ emphases in accounting and finance, and I am already eligible to take the CPA test. Isn't the CPA test equivalent to the MS Accounting, therefore making the MS Accounting unnecessary?

I guess here are the 3 outcomes I would like teaching employability advice on:

MBA w/ a finance emphasis, 18+ hours in finance, CPA
MBA, MS Finance, CPA
MBA, MS Finance, MS Accounting, CPA
MBA w/ a finance emphasis, 18+ hours in finance, MS Accounting, CPA
MBA w/ a finance emphasis, 18+ hours in accounting and finance, CPA

I believe I can pass all parts of the CPA and possibly work towards some other designations, like CMA and CFE, but unless I can count self-employment, I only have 1.5 years of "real" employment as an accounting tech at a government job and would have to use teaching experience for the rest.

I would like to teach finance, accounting, and/or general business courses. Aside from the 18+ hours in finance, the rest of my courses are designated "business administration" are are of the typical nature when they come to content.

I have a graduate fellowship that pays for anything up to and including the PhD at this state school, so costs aren't much of a factor. However, I wasn't accepted to the PhD in Accounting program, so that is out of the question and truthfully for the best since 30+ hours of econometrics and stats didn't interest me and I wasn't willing to work as a TA/RA for free since I already have several personal investing, programming, and e-commerce projects I am involved in.

I would consider something like a EdD or PhD with minimal residency in the future, but the costs and time probably wouldn't be worth it and I honestly don't think it would help me be a better teacher and certainly wouldn't help me with my other interests. I'm not looking to make big bucks, but I'd like $40k+ with benefits teaching around 5 classes in the fall and spring semesters. If this picture is too rosy, I'd appreciate any real world examples too.

Thanks for your feedback

 

Hi TTTDodder,

A warm welcome to Degree Info! Here's why it takes awhile for your posts to show up http://www.degreeinfo.com/general-distance-learning-discussions/35100-new-users-ask-where-did-my-posts-go.html

You have picked probably the only field where there is a chance of finding employment in a college or university. However, it is still really tough to get a job as any kind of professor. The competition is fierce, with people holding doctorates taking most of the jobs. You can technically teach at a college with a master's degree, but in reality, it's extremely difficult to get in.

The good news is that you have a skill and will have a degree that is extremely marketable. Accounting professionals are rarely out of work. Here's my suggestion: Work in the accounting field for a few years before you try to teach. People with real-world experience are often favored over those who have none.

 

TTT,

Thanks for your question. Let me take my stab to help you.

A bit of background about me. I teach at The University of Saint Francis (USF) in Fort Wayne, IN. I've been at USF for 2 years. Before USF, I taught at a tribal community college in Wisconsin for 6 years. I teach a variety of courses in business management.

1. There is a shortage of Accounting and Finance professors. At USF, we had a vacancy for over a year because we were unable to find a suitable candidate.

2. As far as degree goes, you want an MS or MBA. It doesn't matter which one you receive, as long as you have one. If you can manage a degree with 18 hours in Finance AND Accounting, + CPA...trust me, you will be a VERY attractive candidate....provided you have job experience. Note - based on your post, if you can show the accounting and finance experiences in your investing, programming, and e-commerce ventures, that certainly counts as experience.

3. Should you teach at a school that has a Masters Program, a doctoral degree is your chosen field is highly desired. Per AACSB and ACBSP accreditation guidelines, only 10% of the business school faculty can be professionally qualified. At the Masters level, you would need to have extensive professional experience (5 + years). A doctoral degree makes the pool larger. I know that the doctoral degree can be expensive, but keep in mind that most colleges and universities are either state schools or private (401c3), which qualifies your for student loan forgiveness after 10 years.

4. My doctoral degree made me a better teacher. I have a strong grasp of theory which I can articulate to my real-world experiences in management. In addition, papers and presentations are part of producing scholarship, which is a factor in hiring, promotion, and tenure.

5. I earn in the mid-high 50's at my school before overloads and summer classes. I anticipate in the mid 60's this year with 2 summer classes, and 1 overload each semester. Benefit package is good. In addition, my dependent children receive a 100% tuition waiver at my school, through our affiliation with CIC tuition exchange, can choose among almost 400 schools for a tuition waiver. Nice benefit if/when you get married and have children.

6. Don't be afraid to relocate. I relocated from Wyoming to Wisconsin for my 1st full-time gig, and from Wisconsin to Indiana for my current position.

I'm sure some other things will come to mind as more people post, but the outlook for qualified accounting/finance professors is good.

 

Thanks to you both for your feedback

I know I can leave with at least an MBA with 18 hours in finance and accounting. A MBA, MS Accounting, and 18 hours in finance is likely, and if I really hustle, I can leave with 3 Master's.

My atypical work experience is definitely within the realm of accounting & finance. I've used a lot of the tools from both fields in a lot of unique ways.

I'm okay with not teaching at schools with an MBA. By Master's/Comprehensive, I was mainly talking about schools that have a Master's in Teaching/Education as their highest degree, since a lot of smaller schools seem to have that. I know AACSB/ACBSP accreditation makes things difficult at schools offering MBAs and PhDs for those without an PhD.

I actually don't have a problem getting a PhD, or preferably a DBA, but not at the same school I'm at now. I initially came for this fellowship and also since they were starting a B&M DBA program. Unfortunately, they ended up not doing the DBA and instead did PhD's in the functional business areas. Almost all of the programs are unnecessarily quantitative for what I want to do/my research interests, like 30-45 hours of statistics and econometrics to do the accounting program. Also, I wasn't willing to act as a GA or TA for free during the course of the program since I had planned on picking up some classes as an adjunct at a smaller local school. Those combined with the fact that I am more interested in teaching instead of pure research makes it unlikely I'll enroll, even if I'm accepted after the MS Accounting.

At this stage, I'm interested in minimal residency or distance DBAs in the future, possibly one that can be covered by a school if I start working there. I know the region would have a lot to do with pay, but I would be satisfied with $40k+ in a rural area as a full-time. In your case, is full time 4 classes a semester? So with an overload, are you teaching 5? Are online classes part of this? Are you pressured into doing summer classes? Are they online?

Would you have any recommendations on a distance DBA? I know Nova, Institute, and Capella are out there, but you can't really talk to anyone at a big state school in regards to what works at smaller institutions. Are there any, like Capella, where a lot of my prior work from so much graduate education could count towards the DBA? Would it make a difference if I was awarded a degree in the field, say a MS Accounting, instead of just having the 18 hours?

Thanks again everyone

 

IMHO, for smaller schools, they won't care if the doctorate is a PhD or DBA, as long as the doctorate is connected to the subject area. That's why the EdD is probably not a good option for you. By having a doctorate in accounting or finance, you are better suited for opportunities "down the road." FYI - you probably won't receive financial assistance for your doctorate from your institution, other than a small amount for faculty development. For instance, I have access to $600/year for conferences.

As far as the MS/MBA, I think that if you can pull off the double MS in Finance/Accounting, that will be very advantageous for you. However, if you end up with an MS in one field + 18 hours in the other, that will still put you at an advantage over many candidates.

My full-time load is 4 classes a semester. Here's my Fall Schedule:

Business Communications (undergrad on-ground)
Production/Operations Management (undergrad on-ground)
Capstone Course (undergrad on-ground)
Production/Operations Management (grad online, 8-week course)
Leading Change (grad online, 8 week course) - overload

My summer classes are graduate online courses. I willingly teach 1 summer term for the extra money. My school has 2 summer terms. I'll be off from July 3 - August 15, and that's enough. (FYI - July is a true vacation month; August 1 - 14 I will be busy working on 2 projects).

My doctoral degree is from Capella. The degree served me very well. Capella will accept work from the MS/MBA towards a doctoral degree, but I can't remember how much. I know many credits from my MBA program from the University of Akron were transferred in.

Again, good luck!

 

Southern New Hampshire University offers a MS in accounting and finance. The degree gives you 18 credit hours in both fields:

Accounting and Finance Master's Degree Online - Curriculum | MS | SNHU

 

I actually asked about this on the Chronicle of Higher Ed, and the response was pretty negative when it came to distance learning programs like Nova, Capella, etc. I am not against doing something like this in the future, since my main goal in finding a teaching job is to find a position similar to my undergrad or lower, which was at a small school that only offered a Master's in Education as graduate degree.

Does anyone have any advice on what nontraditional programs are out there and which ones are more recognized by the academic community? I do know University of Florida was going to try to start a 3-year online-ish DBA program, which on name alone may be better for me to hold off for.

I've actually looked at the background of my former professors and those at similar schools, and I see some getting away without a doctoral degree and I am guessing they have tenure. I see PhD's in marketing and management, but fewer in finance and almost none in accounting. One change I saw at least at my school, and this may be as a result of them trying to get AACSB accreditation, is that they have hired a handful of professors with PhDs in completely weird subjects, say agricultural economics, and are having them teach accounting classes. I don't think they've done the AACSB bridge program either.

One option I have thought about is an EdD from the same B&M state school I'm at now. I'll have to see if I can focus it towards "business education," like some professors I had in the business department for undergrad, but it would at least be almost completely free and the plan of study is more relaxed in that I could work full-time and complete the program. A free EdD versus a $50k-$80k online DBA/PhD may be more reasonable, especially if the difference in salary won't be that large at the schools I'm looking at. One CC professor I talked with said a PhD didn't make sense relative to his payscale structure, since it amounted to maybe $2k-$3k more. Also, wouldn't an EdD open up possibilities for administration work in the school?

Just trying to think about my options. I can't really ask my professors since anything other than an R1 institution is frowned upon