Looking For Advice On Undergraduate Business Degree

Hi,

Here is a basic rundown of my situation. After graduating high school in 1998, I had an opportunity to work for an Internet company, and I decided it was an opportunity I couldn't pass up (a decision I don't regret, given that I don't think I could have gotten the same experience if I had just gotten out of college now, as the Internet industry in 2002 is clearly different from 1998).

I spent a year at the company, doing some website development, but focusing on project management and software development. This company was acquired by a larger company, and I then went on to help co-found a new Internet software company.

The past 3 years I have gained a lot of experience, especially in project management and designing software (coming up with feature sets, planning the development process, managing developers, etc.).

However, I've come to a point where I would really like to get an actual undergraduate degree in Business Administration, and eventually go for an MBA.

I am still working, this time with a new startup, so a distance learning plan makes the most sense to me.

I've come up with a few options, but I'd like to get some feedback from the people here on what they think would be best. Any alternate options to speed things up based on work experience would definitely help. I've also co-authored a couple of computer books, and I get the impression this could warrant credit from some institutions.

I don't have any undergraduate credits, so some programs seem to be out because they require some existing undergraduate credits.

Of the options I've looked at, the cheapest place to start out place to start out would seem to be to get an Associated Degree in Business Administration from the local community college (Northern Virginia Community College). However, I would mainly do this if this would provide a shorter timeframe to getting a Bachelor's Degree later on.

I've looked extensively at the University of Maryland University College, which would seem to cost about $43,000 to get a full Business Administration Bachelor's Degree with a minor in Finance. Probably the main thing that is attractive to me about this option is that this is part of the University of Maryland system, and seems to be fairly well respected.

I also spent some time looking at the University of London External Programme. I can't tell too much about it, but it seems quite affordable, and I get the impression it is well respected.

My ultimate goal would be to try for an MBA from Virginia Tech or the University of Texas, for example. But I would like to get a respected undergraduate degree as well.

Anyway, I hope this gives you an idea of my current line of thinking. Any advice, suggestions or ideas I haven't considered would really be appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom

 

I suggest you look at the BS in Business (IT Management) from Western Governor's University. WGU BS Business.

 

If the MBA is your real goal, also consider the Heriot Watt MBA, which you can do without getting the Bachelor's first.

 

Thanks Gert, I'll check that out.

One of my concerns though was if it would be damaging or looked down upon having a degree from a school many people haven't heard of (I personally hadn't heard of Western Governors until I saw it in a list of distance learning schools, and my understanding is that it is fairly new).

In particular, would there be a risk that a potential employer might be wary of a degree from a school they weren't familiar with?

More importantly, if I try to apply to an online MBA program from Virginia Tech or the University of Texas or Duke, would they look down upon it coming from a new school like this, or would the only thing that matter be how well you did?

-Tom

 

Western Governors has national accreditation (from DETC) and its degrees would definitely have limited utility for graduate admissions at traditional universities. Thomas Edison State College and Charter Oak State College are regionally accredited and also allow credit by portfolio. Degrees from these institutions have wider acceptance for graduate admissions.

 

This Heriot Watt MBA sounds quite interesting....considering my ultimate goal is to attain an MBA, this looks like it could be exactly what I'm looking for. Most every distance learning MBA program I've found requires an undergraduate degree....are there any other programs like HW which don't require an undergraduate degree as a prerequisite?

Of course, the question is whether I would be able to pass the exams for the courses they have.

It also seems that I would need to go to New York to take the required exams. Is this correct?

I found a detailed page through Google from a person who obtained their MBA which I will read through....here it is for anyone who is interested: http://www.abbeyassociates.com/hwpage.html

Does anyone know what the reputation is of the Heriot-Watt MBA?

Thanks,

Tom

 

I am studying with Heriot Watt myself.

Your first stop in exploring this program should be the EBS Watercooler. This has links to the official EBS site, as well as Tim Dotson's site (which you cite above) and other student sites.

If you are seriously interested in an MBA, I suggest the Financial Times book Which MBA? A Critical Guide to the World's Best MBAs. This provides a fair assessment of MBA programs, including the Heriot Watt MBA.

 

From the HR viewpoint


1) don't get a BSBA & and MBA, if you want a MBA get your Bachelors in another area (IT, Inl't Relations, Lib. Arts, etc)

I'd look at Regents or TESC for your BS in anything other than business or management.

As far as your MBA, do a general program or a program in Operations, marketing, Int. Business, or the "best" - finance
Don't get weird with a foreign degree, stay with a fully RA state-side MBA program, look at this book - Bears guide to MBA's for over 100 choices.

As you set your career path, remember that you might want to change in the future so optimize your tool box (degrees)

1. if you are an expert in IT you will not need a graduate degree in this field.

2. if you want to be a VP some day - get a MBA in Finance or if you dislike numbers, go with Operations.

3. you might want to consider a Bachelors in IT, if not go with a Liberal Arts degree - you can fast track the process, and the workplace will not view you was an a computer guy....

4. don't waste your $$$ for a AS/A degree

5. choose your MBA school/program carefully

6. work on your BS while looking for an employer that will pay 80-100% of your MBA program and will offer you a fast track path within the organization.

7. don't get mind set that the degree with make you whole (able-bodied), better, etc..., it WILL NOT, @ this stage the real test will be - can you do the job ?, can you do the job profitable for the company ? - look at your college degree(s) as part of your tool box.

8. you don't need a AS, more than (1) BS, more than (1) MS/A

9. don't forget to save for your retirement

Good luck



HR Pro

Ed.D, MBA, MA, BSBA, BS, AS

 

Thanks Gert, I'll check that book out.

Is it correct to say that the Heriot-Watt MBA is fairly well respected?

I know it sounds snobbish, and my primary interest in an MBA is for the actual knowledge, but considering that it is a significant financial investment, it is important to me to get an MBA that would not be looked down upon (i.e. I don't want to get an MBA from Joe Schmoe University and then discover that every prospective employer things it is worthless). It's nice to see that this does apparently show up in lists of the top MBA programs (I'm not expecting people to give this the same weight as a Harvard or Stanford MBA).

From looking it, it seems that you basically can get the MBA by taking 9 courses (7 core and 2 elective), and the costs are $1200 US per course. So about $10,800 for a well respected MBA, if that's correct, seems like a very good deal to me.

What would you say your opinion of the quality of the education you've gotten so far is? The interaction with other students and professors, etc. How rigorous you find the material.

-Tom

 

Thanks HR PRO, looks like some valuable advice. Although can you clarify the part about not wasting time with a foreign degree?

This Heriot-Watt MBA looks quite interesting, what would your opinion of it be? Especially if I decided to get just that and not a stateside bachelor's degree.

One thing I saw as a potential concern is that I have never heard of Regents/Excelsior or Thomas Edison. Will that matter at all to potential employers, or are they more well known and respected than I think?

One thing that interested me about Excelsior is the ability to take exams directly, and I saw that George Mason University (a local university which I've considered getting an undergraduate degree with) accepts credits from them.

-Tom

 

Read the book and you'll find out where it ranks. The Financial Times book is the internationally authoritative guide. You should weigh its opinion far more highly than any individual's opinion (including mine) on this board.

You are correct.

I am only one course (and one exemption) into it. There are three ways to do the program: on campus, by reading the course books, or by reading the course books plus using the online content. Or some combination. The degree is the same, which ever way you get there, and is assessed by examinations -- quite rigorous examinations. There is very little interaction (other than through the Watercooler) -- essentially none if you choose to use the course books alone. So this is a program for independent self-motivated people who can pace themselves effectively.

 

Thanks Gert. I'm going to go to the bookstore tomorrow and see if they have that Financial Times book in stock. If not, I'll order it from amazon.com.

Just to ask, do you have to actually go to one of the testing centers to take the exam, or are there other options? It probably wouldn't be a huge deal for me to take a train to New York (I live just outside of Washington, DC) if that's the closest testing center to me, but I got the impression from reading that website I posted from an HW MBA graduate that they were taking the exams some other way.

-Tom

 

This is the first time that I have had a near real-time conversation on this board!

You should not need to come to NYC for exams. Don't get confused by the "minor diets" which have U.S. exams only in NYC. A diet is an exam period, and the major diets are in June and December, with exams in over 300 centers worldwide. The minor diets are in March and August, with exams only in 6 centers (and only NYC in U.S.).

For questions about exam centers, send email to [email protected]

 

Thanks Gert.

I'm very intrigued by this, and I am really glad I came here to ask this question. I don't think I would have found out about Heriot-Watt and EBS otherwise, which would be a shame since it seems like it may be perfect for what I'm looking for.

I guess that what I would need to do is take the exams for two courses (since I don't have an undergraduate degree) and if I was able to pass those, it would be enough to get into the program?

EDIT: Actually, am I correct in saying that there isn't necessarily a formal acceptance....it would mainly be a matter of purchasing the first two courses, then passing the exams, and if I passed them, I would be on my way to an MBA through their program, even though I don't have an undergraduate degree? In this scenarion I understand that I wouldn't be considered matriculated until passing the first two courses I chose.

-Tom

 

You are correct. You need two passes to "matriculate." But there is not much practical advantage to being a matriculated student. The exam graders don't know your status, so there is no possibility of discrimination. I guess that once you matriculate you can get a student ID, but I'm not sure what you'd do with it. You are also eligible to participate in on-campus courses in Edinburgh.

The good news is that (according to Prof. Gavin Kennedy) the success rates for people without a bachelor's degree who matriculate with two passes is at least as good as for those with a bachelor's degree.

 

Some additional feedback on this topic;


As far as HW, is it RA (yes or no) "NO" it has accreditation from GAAP and yes it's a MBA great degree.

These HR people are what I view as --- personnel jockeys or gate keepers. ---- here is an example recruitment list


1 John Doe, BS from TESC, MBA from Phoenix, 5 years exp.
2 Tom Doe , BS from UCLA, MSIT from Keller, 5 year exp.
3 Mike Doe, no bachelors, MBA from HW, 5 years exp

who will get the job from the personnel jockey view point ?

Some questions that the HR jockey will ask,

1. is it RA ?
2. No Bachelors ???, why, how ? (red flags will fly high)
3. How did you get the degree ? (in the mail ?)
4. Why HW ?
5. What wrong with this ?


The answer is = NOTHING, the response will be NEGATIVE
and remember that the personnel jockey will now have to become an expert on accreditation and somehow check that degree, but it's out of the norm ?????, I don't have a box to check.....

I rember back in the mid 80's, I got my first Masters from UOP, and every HR jockey would ask, so you attended school in Phoenix ?, but worked in LA, how ?? and I would have to explain, no it was........... I disliked this feeling so much.

It's just one point of view, but remember that you'll have to play with HR sometime in your life. And to be honest, if I had to pick one of the three candidates it would not be #3, why you ask, it does not have RA



If you were say 45 years old, BS from a RA school, a MBA from HW, it would be a whole new game.

Last word, - the chances that you will finish @ HW is low, these exams are far from being easy.


If I only knew then what I know now,

HR Pro

Ed.D., Pepperdine

 

Thanks Again Gert.

I'm still going to check out that Financial Times book to get the details, but I came across this site which describes the rankings:

http://www.careerdynamo.com/mba_ft_rank_2001.html

Apparently EBS is ranked as the 12th best business school within Europe, and in 2001 was the 50th best business school Internationally. My understanding is that the Heriot-Watt MBA is considered the same as the EBS MBA degree. Do you have any idea why the rankings would fluctuate so much though? Wondering how much weight to give this....I noticed EBS was ranked as the 37th best business school worldwide before.

That seems quite good to me.

-Tom

 

Thanks HR PRO.

I understand that the HW exams are difficult, but I don't see that as a negative. It seems like that should add to the value of the MBA. From what I've read about HW, it seems that the exams are quite difficult, but that as long as you put the effort into studying the coursework, it is certainly passable (added to the fact that apparently grading is on a curve, as people are able to pass with 60-70% grades).

As to why I would not have a Bachelor's degree, I think it is simple to explain (I went into the workforce out of high school, and was promoted to the level of Vice President and co-founder within a year). I'm looking for the MBA, and a quality MBA, to solidify what I have gained in work experience.

I am intrigued by the MBA from HW because it is something I can obtain for around $10,000, heading straight into the program without worrying about taking years to complete an undergraduate degree part time. I am also impressed that EBS is at least ranked as a top business school. I would think that would carry some weight.

Are you saying that an HW degree would be less respected than a University of Phoenix undergraduate and MBA combination?

-Tom

 

HR PRO, there were a couple of sentences you wrote which I couldn't quite parse. Could you clarify these?

I especially didn't understand the answer is = NOTHING part.

Thanks,

Tom

 

Just one thought Tom, why not knock out a BA/BS from one of the big 3 (TESC, COSC, ExC). You could do it within 6 months of parttime study, they are all RA and it would fill that undergraduate hole on your resume. I think you might find it fun and educational also. Good luck in your decisions.