Dear Class of ‘13: You’ve Been Scammed

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Lerner, May 24, 2013.

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  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Dear Class of ‘13: You’ve Been Scammed


    By Brett Arends | MarketWatch

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/dear-class-13-ve-scammed-110139929.html

     
  2. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    That article is spot on.
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Because the U.S. does not have a strong qualifications framework, it is difficult for high school graduates to distinguish themselves at the tertiary level without going to college. We push every kid towards college. This simply must have an inflationary impact. Add that to the learn-now-pay-later nature of the business and you have a recipe for this kind of disaster.

    In the past 50 years or so, employers have continued to ratchet up their demands for diplomas, degrees, certifications, etc. Because workers do not have work-based alternative credentials available, they turn to higher education. This pressure created both the nontraditional higher education and for-profit education industries.

    This problem is worsened by the "boudaryless" and "protean" career phenomenon, where employers are leaving more and more of worker development to the workers themselves. The days of getting on with a good employer at the bottom and working your way up--earning a defined benefit pension along the way--are gone. They've been replaced with 401Ks and self-paid higher degrees. You're not tied to the employers and their not tied to you. You own the package and take it where it pays the best (money or whatever else you seek). From the employers' perspectives, why should they invest in employees who are just going to leave anyway? (Health care is next.)

    All of this puts pressure on employees to develop themselves, which (in turn) causes them to pursue higher education (and degrees). And that demand drives up costs. Most employees will be seen as little more than independent contractors. Employers will pay them well, but the employees will be required to maintain their own career paths, including learning and development. They'll have to carry their own health insurance, too. Say goodbye to the benefit package--including tuition assistance. You're all on your own now. Get used to it.
     
  4. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    Europe's education model is entirely different than, say, North America's. You're basically at a crossroads at 15 years of age - continue on or learn a trade. The skills taught in the trades include those specific to the trade, rather than the general "everyone must have a Great 12 to be ready for life" ideology practised here. Or, should one choose to continue their education, carry on. When I was growing up in Europe, I attended a "Gymnasium" rather than a regular "school" as that would prepare me for continuing my education...

    I still don't get the North American way of education - everyone must have a degree to be worthy. Idiotic. When I started with IT, I was able to get jobs because I had experience while, most of those with degrees (at that time) knew theory but couldn't do anything practically..ergo, I got jobs. Fast forward 15 years - everyone must have a degree. If you watch the threads in the IT section, most everyone will advise people to get Certs - as most certs show know how (something a degree, by en large, cannot).

    My wife is a Nurse - and she shakes her head at Health Care as well; to be an RN used to be a 2 year program - about 15 years ago they did away with that (in Canada, at least) and made the move towards BSN... now, RNs require a BSN.. for what exactly?

    Want to be a journalist? Gotta have a degree! WHY? Anyone should be able to be a journalist provided they can investigate and write coherently.. you know, like it used to be before education became a money making monster.

    Everything is driven to pay 10s of $1000s of dollars in tuition which will take YEARS to repay.

    So, let's turn back the clock and go back to the way it was - it worked. Worked well... how do I know? Well, they're still doing in it in European Countries.... oh, and yes, tuition is pretty much free (my Masters degree is 7000 Euros/year for Non-EU students, while EU students pay 50% less.. now that's for .ie), because they know that once you're done, you're paying for it in taxes.
     
  5. ebbwvale

    ebbwvale Member

    The idea of a degree for everything is killing the value and the idea of higher education perhaps. A lot of material that is now being thrust towards the university is really competency based training, albeit it challenging. It would do better to have it inside professional associations and technical colleges, not universities. One is applied skills and the other is theoretical appreciation. They have different purposes and one is not superior to the other, just different. Fortunately, plumbers have avoided this lunacy and are making good money because they have.

    Universities, of course, promote this approach because it brings them growth and dollars. I think IT has seriously undermined this university approach with the qualifications outside the university often more sought than the university qualifications. I think this should happen more often and then everybody can get back to what they do well and the individual debt and disappointment levels will drop.
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The point is being missed. Employers require more and more degrees because they are no longer burdened with growing and developing (those terms are different) employees. It is left to the employees to manage their own career development.
     
  7. lawrenceq

    lawrenceq Member

    I heard a musician say the same thing about record companies not developing artist like they once did. They look for artist with a buzz already and sign them.
     
  8. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Agree, 100%. I would add that a person can now make a totally record company quality CD using a laptop, the requisite skill and the right outboard gear. Many record companies now require that the artist do all of the work ahead of time so all they have to do is put their name on an already established entity. It may seem sleezy on their part, but many of the record companies are just trying to survive and adapt to the widespread downloading and pirating of their product.
     
  9. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The British system is a lot more efficient in my opinion. You can get a professional qualification like ACCA or Computer British Society for less than 5 K. You can convert these qualifications into degrees but most people won't bother because the market demands more professional qualification than degrees.

    The American job market is more oriented towards degrees. Also, in the US the name of school means a lot. While in the UK an ACCA qualification is universal, in the US if you degree is from a no name school is not so valuable as a degree from a ranked school.

    The Canadian system is slowly getting close to the American system. An MBA from the University of Toronto or Queens costs around 80K nowadays.
     
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    What RFValve is describing is a "strong qualifications system," where occupational tertiary certifications (normally in a hierarchy of levels) are available and recognized by employers. As RFValve points implies, these qualifications run along levels comparable to degrees (and can often be used as prerequisites for degrees). They're a mix of training, experience, and exam-passing. They have the effect of channeling secondary students towards occupations instead of college. In the U.S., instead, we shove them all towards college, including the ones who clearly don't show that capability in high school. The community colleges are filled with these students, many of whom would be better served by a vocational ladder of qualifications.

    This subject is called national human resource development and it is not practiced much in the U.S.
     
  11. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    It is not practiced in Canada, either, I'm afraid to say. I also cannot see it change, given the amount of money (or, truth be told, credit) that is being pushed with it. As long as there are such strong ties to "debt", the system won't change.
     
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Just to give you an idea, I completed a British accounting qualification for less than 2K and now completing a M.Sc in Accounting and finance for 5K from a ranked school.

    The British system is a lot cheaper and efficient. The problem with the US system is that many companies disguised as universities make a lot of money from students so there is no motivation to help these students with more cost effective education solutions.
     
  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    For what I have seen, many of the University graduates from online IT programs from Devry, Walden, etc end working as tech support. In the past, tech support people were high school graduates with some tech training but now there are so many IT university graduates that many companies require university university degrees from this job. Even the content of these programs seem to be oriented towards training technicians that once was the goal of CC and high school vocational programs.

    The business model is similar to the one from the real estate, let's make education and real estate worth a fortune so the population become slaves of the financial institutions that profit from this business model.
     
  14. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    I have a relative who will enter university this fall to study biology. Yearly cost is 9000 GBP ($13,600) per year excluding R&B. She had the same cost quoted from four universities.
     
  15. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I think you missed the point, the British system doesn't require you to go to a University to practice a profession. There are plenty of professional qualifications from the institutes such as the British Computer Society, ACCA, AIA, etc. You can get a job as an accountant, financial officer, programmer, etc with a qualification that will cost you 2K.

    If you do a search for jobs in the British market, not all jobs require university degrees but professional qualifications from recognized institutes.
     
  16. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I know Nurses that are MSn RN and even PHD, RN.

    Jobs that used to be filled with 2 year degree RN's are now require BSN.
     
  17. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    And there was even a time when you could become a registered nurse without holding a degree of any kind. Back in the day, as they say, there were many hospitals that had programs to train there own nurses. I think a few hospitals still do, but they are becoming increasingly rare. Kate Gosselin, of the now defunct show Kate Plus Eight, became a registered nurse by completing a diploma program through Reading Hospital and Medical Center in Reading, Pennsylvania.

    Kate Gosselin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  18. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    ..in Canada it was a 2 year diploma program - which worked quite well... LPNs now, for example, can do just about everything an RN can do as RNs are becoming less desirable due to the wage demanded by the profession.
     
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Those days are gone in my part of Canada, BlueMason. Ontario now requires a 4-year degree - B.Sc., Nursing. IIRC it was a 3-year diploma program here, before that. Differs by Province, I guess.

    I can remember years ago, hospitals here were hiring many, many nurses from the Philippines -- and well-qualified they were, too. They were needed because so many nursing grads from here were being hired in the U.S., where pay, working/living conditions and advancement possibilities were better than in Canada.

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2013
  20. Petedude

    Petedude New Member

    Agreed. And SNHU is perpetuating this. . . saw their commercial this weekend on Spike during a "Star Wars" marathon. At first, I thought, nice to see SNHU advertising, then after I read their website-- yikes. They may have good programs and a good selection of them, but on their website they claim to be. . .affordable?

    I suppose compared to many Ivy League schools and AACSB institutions they might be affordable. I also realize that affordability is still by and large a subjective conclusion, but I don't really think of a $970 per credit hour master's program as affordable.

    I'm a moderate who leans conservative politically, but after reading the article mentioned by the OP I'd have to agree somewhat. . . the current collegiate environment could be considered a scam perpetuated by the "1%" especially given that "the 1%" will soon be the only ones able to afford name institutions. 1% of the US population may be enough to keep many institutions afloat for the foreseeable future, but I'm not sure the 1% can or will keep all of them running forever.
     

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