Getting older

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Kizmet, Mar 30, 2013.

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  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Many of our members are mid-carrer professionals or people who have delayed their higher education for various reasons. I'm wondering if people have experienced age discrimination in their job searches. Maybe you can't be sure about that but maybe you worry that some companies are looking for a 25 year old with a new MBA as opposed to a 50 year old with a new MBA. Experience counts for a lot in my book but maybe some companies want that unattached young worker who can stay on the job for 80 hours a week. What has been your experience?

    Oh yeah, here's the requisite little article:

    Get the Job--Without Lying About Your Age - Yahoo! Finance
     
  2. ebbwvale

    ebbwvale Member

    I think that older people today are stereotyped by opinions about age drawn from previous generations. I don't think that growth in health science has impacted upon public perception as much as it should have. Many people retain great cognition well into older age. Preventative medicine has developed to the point that many exercise well into old age and maintain performance levels that previous generations could only dream about.

    Recently, I came across a 68 year old nurse who had such amazing skills that her health bosses are trying to talk her out of retiring at the end of this year. It would seem that the key to staying employed into older age is staying engaged with a current skills base. This means continuous learning and a healthy lifestyle. If nothing else, stay with technology as this seems to be the argument presented to knock people out eg. he won't be able to cope with the technology required.

    Perceptions always lag behind science and eventually the language about aging will change to the positive. Mindsets, however, need to be challenged by healthy older people pushing their boundaries. Mick Jagger, Paul McCartney, and numerous other artists have shown the way, if a little outrageously. A refusal to be marginalized is the key.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2013
  3. ooo

    ooo New Member

    Seems like some of it has to do with salary levels. It's easier to find a lower paying entry-level job than a higher paying management job. Younger people generally are applying for those easier-to-find entry-level jobs.

    A 50 year old likely has higher previous salaries than a 25 year old. Employers like to pay as little as needed to get the job done.

    Perhaps some of it is even the types of jobs that 50 year old people want vs. the type of jobs that 25 year old people want. A 50 year old might be looking for a management job, while a 25 year old is looking for a job level that's easier to find anyway. It's easier, in general, to find entry-level jobs than management or higher level jobs. So, if a 25 year old is job searching, they're searching for the entry-level "easier to get" jobs anyway. There are more entry level jobs than management jobs available.

    Young people tend to move around much more than older people. A young person might be looking for a job for only a month or two because they're willing to move across the country on short notice for a job. It's much easier to move across the country at 25 than at 50 (especially if there's a house, spouse, and kids involved).

    Tech savy and current skills play a role, too.

    Work availability plays a bit part, for sure. What employer would want to pass up a single, unattached, healthy 25 year old who could work anytime, day or night, and travel to any city on short-notice?

    I would guess that employers might worry about other expenses for older employees. Health insurance costs more as a person ages. And, if there are pre-existing conditions (sometimes common with age), the small business employer will be paying more for health insurance for an older employee. Health insurance for a 25 year old might run $100 a month, but that could be $500+ a month for a 50 year old man with heart problems. Large employers might have a group company health insurance plan that insures all ages at the same rate. However, very small businesses might be paying health insurance (and life insurance) individually based on age.

    From what I've seen, it can be harder to get jobs at 50 or 60 than at 20. Whether that's based on the type of job you're looking for (easy to find entry level jobs vs. experienced manager positions) vs. salary grade vs. ageism, who knows. I of course see the benefits in hiring older, wiser, more experienced employees.
     
  4. perrymk

    perrymk Member

    Not only does health insurance cost more, but the time taken off to care for one's health increases. I think it is understandable to want to hire someone who has a better chance of working more and being out for health reasons less. Without a lot of detail, my opinion is based on my personal experience.
     
  5. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    I've not experienced it, but from talking to my older brother and other 25+ year veterans of the IT world, ageism is very much a real thing in the Tech sector.

    And business is business. It may suck and not be the best for individual employees, but that's the way it is. I'll do my best to avoid it, but I can't make someone change their prejudices (ageism, racism, whatever).
     
  6. major56

    major56 Active Member

    "The GAO report cites several studies that explain why companies favor younger workers: They typically earn less; employers expect they'll have less of an impact on health care costs; and they won't have an issue working for a younger boss. Employers also worry that older workers' technical skills are out of date, and, since they're obviously closer to retirement, they'll bail faster.

    Older Americans who confront that bias will have a tough time pursuing relief. A 2009 Supreme Court decision made it more difficult for older workers to prove claims of illegal bias based on age."
    Age Discrimination: Older Workers Worry About Hiring Bias

    Nevertheless, even though ageism bias is alive and well, as well as additional types of various bias … too, as mentioned in the article, consider that profession inertia can be /is likewise a contributing factor.
     
  7. ebbwvale

    ebbwvale Member

    I think that it also may be a little industry centric. Human services in this country are best served by older people who have more life experience. The industry could not run without the volunteers that come from the grey haired brigade. Schools, for example, have older people coaching reading and maths to the kids who are not keeping up (obviously under teacher guidance). Some of these volunteers have more education and experience than the teacher. Some of these actually end up on staff.

    My mother in law who is her 90's has paid home support come in for various functions. All of these people are well into their 50s and 60's. One specialist nurse who came in was 69. She actually wants to retire but the agency is encouraging her to stay because of her skill base.

    I think that there are a lot of myths about aging that may have had some validity in prior generations, are really doubtful now. The first one is the assumption that there will be a loss of cognition and physical functionality. Very few jobs require much physicality and, to be frank, a lot do not require much thinking ability either (the computer program dominates). Technology has made work by older people easier.

    I would challenge the health costs as well. As a manager, I found that most people having time off sick were young people, at times driven by their social life. Young people as well get cancer, spinal injuries and all sorts of illnesses, particularly automobile accidents. The age for bowel cancer has actually lowered to the younger generation. If you have any doubts about the latter, check insurance rates, a great business oncost. I found that older employees were less HR demanding.


    Every time a long serving employee walks out the door you lose corporate memory that is not stored in any corporate system. When systems fail, they are a very good backup to get over the crisis because they know another way of doing business. Surprisingly, "fail safe" systems do not seem to be that fail safe.


    The US is different to here because no employer here pays health benefits. Either the person goes to the public health system or pays private health cover to go through the private system. Maybe, some of the burden (if it exists in fact) for health benefits for older employees can be offset in some fashion, but that is purely a US question. after all that, the onus is on the older employee to manage his/her health and to stay engaged in the workplace. If unemployed, volunteer and see what comes of that. It is often surprising.
     
  8. expat_eric

    expat_eric New Member

    I can't speak for all industries but I work in Oil and Gas and due to the cyclic nature of commodity pricing over the last several decades, we don't have enough of the middle aged workers in their 40's and 50's. In oil and gas we have either baby boomers about to retire or guys like me in their late 30's. There is really not alot in the middle. This has created all kinds of problems in these current times because we don't have the mid to late career worker that is the bread and butter of many industries. We either have very expensive guys that are about to retire or we have younger guys that don't have quite enough experience being pushed into jobs that they are not quite ready for. As a manager, I have been forced to make decisions between a guy who was 60 years old and a 30 year old...for the most part, the 30 year old wins. Generally speaking they can get the same work done at half the cost from a salary perspective in most cases.

    When thinking about healthcare, you might be right about sick days. When you look at the one off sick days it probably is the younger group that takes them more frequently. However my observation is that the older workers tend to take extended sick leave for major surgeries on their back, recovering from a minor heart attack, etc. I had one of my guys go out for back surgery for most of a year. That probably would not happen had he been 25 years old.

    Another issue I have run into with the older workers is that they are just not open to change. They have been doing their jobs for 30 years and are not always willing to change. My company is going through some major changes in corporate strategy right now. We are converting from a 100% growth oriented company that only cared about top line revenue growth to one that all of a sudden wants profit and cash flow. The guys that have been here for 20 years just are not changing fast enough. I have seen half a dozen senior managers let go because they would not change how they ran the business.

    I am not arguing that the old guys have alot of experience and knowledge. We need them around in some form.
     

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