Cost of a DBA/Ph.D. in business

Hello,

How much time and money should one planning to spend on an US AACSB accredited DBA or Ph.D. in business administration or its British equivalent? Some concrete examples, maybe?

Thanks,

Dennis Siemens

 

Plan on spending 4-5 years of full-time study to complete a doctoral program (DBA or PhD) at an AACSB accredited school. If you have an MBA in hand - you may cut a year off this total Maybe the final year you'll be able to work and complete your thesis. But plan on a long haul. My basis for this - working with peers that have graduated from such programs. As for cost - in most cases the programs are "free" - that is, your tuition is waived and you receive a stipends in return for teaching and doing research. Of course if you give up a full-time job in industry, you can easily "spend" $200,000 (that is 5 years with a $40,000 pay cut) to finish a PhD or DBA

To the best of my knowledge there are no DL doctoral programs available at AACSB schools - except for Case Western. Case has an Executive Doctor of Management (EDM) that is done in 3 years. Of course, the DL pack (especially the for-profits) try to sell their programs on the idea that you can complete them in 3 years. Cost of a DL program is probably in the $35-$40k range (plus books and travel).

All of this raises the question - "Are traditional on-ground DBAs and PhD's in business really different than DL based programs?" I maintain they are. This is not to say the a DL program isn't creditable. But no one has shown me the "magic trick" that allows DL programs to cram 5 years of full-time learning into 3 years of part-time study.

Thanks - Andy

 

So does a DBA/Ph.D pay off? Especially, if you already have an MBA and several years of work experience.

Thank you,

Dennis Siemens

 

Frankly, the payoff for a traditional DBA/PhD is pretty weak. You forgo a lot of earning power in your younger years to earn those letters after your name.

The DL approach can make more sense. In my case I completed a DL DBA while I continued in industry. I then transitioned into an academic life that actually pays better than industry did (at least for me). For $40,000 the change in lifestyle (and income) made reasonable sense.

Regards - Andy

 

Andy, maybe you could answer the following questions as well:
-How are DL DBAs generally perceived as compared to a full-time one? Can you expect, to some extent at least, a negative discrimination towards a DL DBA?
- What is the investment/outcome ratio of a DBA as compared to a second master's degree beside the MBA; say in a business related field(such as a LLM in business/comercial law or a master's in organizational psychology). Will a DBA in the long run bring in by much more as far as the position and money are concerned?
-Incidentally, how long did it take you to complete your DBA? As I see, NSU is not AACSB accredited; So in general, is a DBA from a not AACSB school substantially less expensive than one from an AACSB school?

Thank you again,

Dennis Siemens

 

I know that the question is directed toward Andy, but for your review, you will find previously submitted threads that deals with similar/same topic matter. I am a Nova Alumni, and I never had to defend my degree anywhere.

Hope this helps.


http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4113&highlight=argosy+university

http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3172&highlight=argosy+university

http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2897&highlight=argosy+university

http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2250&highlight=argosy+university

http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2025

 

Sorry, the last link did not work. This is the correct link that will lead you to the file.

http://www.tui.edu/Alumni/pdf/GCalumsHigherEd.pdf

 

I have looked into every doctoral program within 100 mile of St. Louis and come up with the following conclusions:

AACSB Programs, which are usually in residence, almost always offer graduate assitantships, as well as tuition remission. Also, they are tougher to get into. They usually limit the number of incoming students. If your plan is to teach at an AACSB school, plan on getting an AACSB degree.

If you want to teach at a smaller college or community college, I would get the doctoral degree. I have found that there is usually a pay scale that weights education and experience. So if there are two people, but one has a PhD, and the other has an MBA, it is likely the PhD makes more, given the same level of experience. DL doctoral programs tend to take all who qualify.

An RA DL PhD is likely to do great for those who want to teach at these smaller schools. In the world of business, I would bet that that any RA PhD will be as accepted as another, except for the elites. The stigma of DL may be an issue, but it seems that the idea is progressing. eventually, it seems that this will be a small issue. That is why I chose to go DL.

In making my decision, I knew that it would be DL, so I decided to choose the school that was most convenient for me. My answer was Touro Univeristy International. So far, the experience has been challenging but rewarding. I'm sure this is the case for all RA DL doctoral programs. You just have to choose the one that best meets your needs.

 

so wouldn´t it be better to just make a British PhD?

1 - (almost) no coursework classes
2 - since British Universities are ALL state-approved, wouldn´t that be equal or maybe even better than an American RA doctorate? (at least than an American RA DL doctorate)?

Or am I wrong?

Greets,
Trigger

 

I have observed and participated in many thread here about this.

I think that to the average employer, the value of a nonamerican degree will not be fully understood. That, along the fact that the degree is DL will make for more defending than I think it is worth. This is, however, as viable an option as any. Getting the education financed in The U.S. will be a daunting task. It all boils down to what meets your needs.

 

For someone living and working in Europe it'll be definitely the better option. As far as I know, in Germany at least, they will not let you use the abbreviation "Dr." with your name if you have an US doctor title. And then, in most cases, it is not enough for an American MBA or Ph.D. in business to be only regionally accredited; it must be AACSB accredited as well in order to be officially recognised in Germany. But I've also heard that British DBAs tend to be more demanding the their American or even German brethern.

Dennis Siemens

 

Thank you Tom and DCross for chiming in.

Dennis Siemens

 

I teach Information Systems at a AACSB accredited University, I'm currently enrolled in a DBA in Information Systems at USQ. My master is from an AACSB accredited institution but my DBA won't be, in spite of this, I will be considered for a tenure track position. I think it is not the AACSB accreditation that matters, it is your capability of selling your self. An australian instituion is the most affordable option for someone that makes canadian dollars, it is almost free to study a PHD at a AACSB institution but the opportunity cost is very high if you take in consideration that you will have to survive with 10000 to 20000 dlls a year during your studies. An also don't forget, that if you are an international student, you might not be elegible for university financial assistance.

 

Here is a reply. Thanks - Andy

Yes, there is some discrimination - but it varies by institution. As I've pointed out - at one institution I was denied tenure track because of a DL doctorate. At another (better regarded) school, I'm having no problem. Go figure!

If you want to work for an AACSB school (there are 350 or so out of 1200 or more schools with business programs in the U.S.), you need to go to an AACSB school. If you are satisfied to work in one of the second tier schools (typically ACBSP, IACBE or not professionally accredited), then a DL degree should work - albeit with some scattered discrimination.

If you are interested in an academic position - go for a doctorate. Two masters aren't the same. Terminal degrees are highly prized.

I took 4.5 years to complete my degree. A few peers did it in less time, most took at least four years. NSU is not AACSB (and is not likely to become so in the future, despite the desire of the dean). As for cost - the big six (as John Bear puts it) are all in the $30-$40k range. The fact that they are not AACSB doesn't seem to lower the price.

Note too that AACSB does not accredit at the doctoral level - only the undergraduate and masters level. In my case, I earned an MBA from a top 25 AACSB school.

 

Warum nicht??

Nord

 

@ North: ein aus einem Nicht-EU-Mitgliedsstaat stammender Titel darf ausschließlich in der Originalform geführt werden, mit der Abkürzung des Landes in Klammern, und auch nur nach ausführlicher Prüfung/Nostrifizierung auf Gleichwertigkeit mit einem deutschen Titel durch das zuständige Bildungs-/Wissenschaftsministerium.

Im Falle eines amerikanischen Doktortitels wäre das dann als ein

"Vorname Nachname, PhD (USA)"

Eine "Eindeutschung" in "Dr." geht ebenfalls nur, wenn es auch auf der Urkunde draufsteht.

Grüße,
Trigger

 

Please don't misunderstand me, I do not want to cast a shadow over your academic achievements; just would like to know your thoughts on the issue. Assuming, as you stated earlier, that a DBA will take you 4-5 years of full-time study and taking into consideration that it is usually said that you should plan on spending twice as much time completing the same program part-time(that would be 8-10 years then), how would you explain to somebody the fact that it took you only 4.5 years to finish your DBA via DL, on the side?

Thanks,

Dennis Siemens

 

I don't consider most DL programs to be part time. In fact, they tend to be accelerated. At Touro, one can earn 16 Credit hours in 24 weeks. It's just that the programs are not designed like typical programs where you would be taking 3 or 4 courses at a time. Instead, you focus on 1 or 2 for a short period, and move to the next as your program progresses.

 

Good question - here is a reply. Thanks - Andy

This is just the point. Is a DL DBA/PhD the same thing as a traditional, residential doctorate in business?

My 4.5 years at NSU pales in comparison to the 3 years (or less) being promoted by some of the for-profit operations.

I'd argue that the RA DL programs we talk about here are creditable - e.g. they aren't degree mills and you have to do some real work to complete them. They are different, however, than traditional programs. Hence, the somewhat dim view of such programs held by many in academia aren't without reason.

This is evidenced in a recent thread on "rigor in graduate study".
Folks doing 4-5 years of full-time study (albeit with some teaching/research responsibilities) have more time to dig deeper into the literature and do more original and substantial dissertations. In my experience - reading traditional dissertations and guiding DL students through dissertations - there really is a difference.

Perhaps the answer is in the degree label. DBA or DM (Doctor of Management) may be more appropriate for applied degrees earned by mid-career folks than the label "PhD". Indeed, institutions such as Case Western, UoP, UMUC and Lawrence Technological University have gone this way.

In fact, in two recent encounters with NCA - I've seen a greater willingness on their part to say yes to practitioner focused non-PhD doctoral programs (as in DM or DEng) than to say yes to PhD programs by weak institutions.

Thanks - Andy

 

But Darren - At Touro what is the employment status of the majority of students? In my experience at NSU, virtually all doctoral students had full-time jobs (and many had marriages, mortgages, etc.). The norm there was one or two classes (3-6 hours) out of a 60 credit program per 4 month term.

There is a real credibility issue in my mind when full-time grad students take 9 hours or so in a 15 week semester and DL students complete 16 credits in just 24 weeks. Can a "credit" really be a "credit" in this comparison?

Thanks - Andy