University of the Free State (South Africa)

Hello everyone!
My first post on here!! So my question is this.. Is UFS seen as a reputable univ both inside and out of South Africa? I am an administrator NOT a faculty member and was wondering if anyone has insight on how this degree would be received in the USA in positions (i.e. Vice Presidential at a college) that require a doctorate degree. Also, in wading through the fees and costs.. Can someone tell me what the yearly cost is to go there and how in the world you wire transfer fees and tuition in SA Rand currency?? Anyone know someone from UFS teaching or Administrator in USA? I think that is all for now and I look forward to your responses...

 

I agree with Steve.

 

Wow. Three posts, three threads started.

 

Vice presidents are normally appointed by the board of governors and tend to be very competitive positions. I don't want to sound negative but I don't think people aiming for these positions would be interested in doing DL degrees from SA but getting executive education from top schools in the US. Of course having a DL degree from SA cannot hurt but can't see how a board would think of it as the main advantage when hiring someone for a VP position. Most VPs at known schools make 200K+ so I would expect strong competition from people with impressive credentials.


We have discussed the utility of a SA PhD many times in this forum, most believe it can be a great credential for CC full time teaching positions, adjunct positions, professional positions that might see a PhD as an advantage (e.g. Scientist) or even tenure track positions for fields with shortages. However, if someone is aiming for a job that pays more than 200K that is more than your average Harvard business graduate makes, I would expect this person to aim for the best to compete for this job.


I guess more opinions in this subject will follow

 

I've never worked at a university before but my guess is that becoming a college VP has more to do with your capacity for following orders without question, your tolerance for bullshit, your willingness to kiss ass and your skill as a politician than it does with where you got your PhD. In other words, just like any other VP job.

 

You are right, but add to it "academic snobbery". The academic credentials of the VP are always included in most catalogs, web sites, conferences, etc. I cannot think about a VP that wouldn't be subject to criticism if the academic credentials included a PhD earned by DL from UFS, most faculty that earned traditional credentials from known American schools would be too critical about their VP because of the SA PhD in my opinion.

 

I do not think we should be so quick to dismiss UFS. There are many US degrees which are more highly rank than UFS. However UFS is highly ranked on the world stage above many respected US degrees. The doctorate is only one aspect of the hiring process, for screening in/out prior to the interview.

 

Really, I want to see evidence of this.
The world university rankings doesn't have UFS in the top 400. The only SA are below and scored very low:
Top African universities 2012-13

Webometrics (not a respected ranking but at least shows UFS) puts it in rank 2468 that is better than northcentral ranked at 4984 but wouldn't call it outstanding

Home | Ranking Web of Universities
Africa | Ranking Web of Universities

I have nothing against UFS but if the OP is going to bet his life on this school so he better make sure that would be respected for the positions that he wants to apply.

 

Actually, here are some webometrics ratings by country/world

South Africa
Stellenbosch 1/400
UNISA is 6/862
UFS is 12/2468

US, For Profit, Online
NCU is 1801/7365
Capella is 894/3784
Walden is 573/2451
UOP is 694/2919

US Public Ivies
U of MD is 23/27
UVA is 34/42
U of Mass 58/88
UCLA 6/6
Rutgers 35/43
UC Berkeley 7/7

US Private
Georgetown is 66/106
Florida Tech is 252/1002

US Ivy
Harvard 1/1
Princeton 20/24
Yale 13/13

Canada
Athabasca 33/1017
Dalhousie 19/326
University of Toronto 2/34
Humber College 74/3629

UK
Cambridge 1/14
Oxford 2/16
Edinburgh 4/65
London School of Economics 10/163

 

As with any of these ranking systems, knowing the criteria by which the schools are being measured means everything. If you don't know the criteria the numbers mean almost nothing, even as relative measures.

 

There is no quid pro quo between jobs and degrees. You see a lot of language like that on this board, but it isn't true.

A degree won't deliver a job. It won't get you into Officers Candidate School. A Ph.D. won't get you an assistant professorship. Earning 18 s.h. in graduate school won't get you an adjunct position. Etc., etc., etc.

What a degree will do is make you eligible for consideration for such things. But that's a beginning, not an ending. Oh, and it doesn't always do that.

Degrees from some schools are significantly less useful than others. This is often due to the accreditation status of the school. And not just whether or not it is accredited, but by whom.

Another issue ignored is the process for earning a degree. Just as I would not recommend pursing Excelsior's BSN without a medical background (LVN, for example), I wouldn't recommend taking a Ph.D. from a DL school and pursuing an assistant professorship with it.

Perceived quality comes into play, too. The less you have to offer experientially, the more important the source of your degree (assuming it's a legitimate one and not one categorically excluded).

And with all of that, there are plenty of exceptions, too. So....

The Walden Ph.D. isn't going to lead you to an entry-level assistant professorship at Slippery Rock State U. Yet you can find assistant professors with Walden Ph.D.'s (or other DL schools). There are people teaching at RA schools with NA degrees (or unaccredited degrees, or no degrees, whatever). There are CEOs without college degrees, and MBAs working in prisons. Your mileage may vary.

Bottom line: There are good things to do regarding earning degrees. Beware the expectations game. And beware the exceptions rule.

 

I totally agree with you. The question that comes to this forum often is if a DL PhD from an accredited school would make me VP, tenured professor, etc.

There are very few of these positions available and the competition is always fierce. As you mentioned, the PhD title makes you eligible to apply but doesn't give you the job.

Can you make it to be a VP of a college or university with a UFS PhD? Sure you can, but it is not the UFS PhD that is going to make a huge difference but other factors such as political influence, previous achievements, personality, etc.

Can the UFS PhD hurt my chances of becoming a VP? No, UFS is a real University and a PhD from this school still considered a real degree so it won't hurt you but may be not the ideal credential to have when you are aiming for a 200K plus job that has a lot strong candidates.

By the way, VP positions in universities in Canada are quite profitable. They are considered top earners in Canada. Few make more than one million a year. Here is a list if you are interested:

Top 10 highest paid university officials in Canada – - Maclean's On Campus

 

I guess I'm pretty pragmatic. The thing with a doctorate is to not get caught without one when the moment comes along when you need one. That Vice-presidency, presidency or whatever is going to roll past suddenly one day, and it's too late to start and finish a doctorate when it does. So start one and finish one ASAP if it is important to you, and worry less about where it is from. It is just one of 20 attributes they will be looking at in considering your candidacy. I've met with great acceptance for my SA doctorate, and most people are interested to find out more about the school, the program, etc. Also my thesis is widely available and speaks for itself if anyone cares to slog though it!

 

It looks like a Phd will get you the interview but you have to bring a lot more to make you stand out from the competition. If you can afford it and ambitious do the Phd and more. Highest paid vp in Canada.
David Johnson no phd.
Moriarty William no phd.
Amit Chakma Phd UBC
Richard Levin MD
Mamdouh Shoukri Phd McMaster
Indira Samarasekera Phd UBC
Ramona Lumpkin Phd Uni. Kentucky
Carl G. Amrhein Phd SUNY-B
Alastair Summerlee Phd Bristol
Dezsö J. Horváth Phd Umea

 

Agreed.

Agreed. But this raises the question: why would people think this way ?

I suspect that part of the reason may be the rise of low-selectivity educational programs, notably (but not entirely) at for-profit schools. If you have a valid high school diploma, there effectively is a quid pro quo: you will be able to find a college that will admit you as an undergraduate. It may not be Yale, but there are plenty of other schools out there that will accept virtually anyone as long as they have a high school diploma.

And if you have a valid bachelor's degree, there effectively is a quid pro quo: you will be able to find a master's program that will admit you. It may not be MIT, but there are plenty of other master's programs out there that will accept virtually anyone as long as they have a bachelor's.

And if you have a valid master's degree, there effectively is a quid pro quo: you will be able to find a doctoral program that will admit you. It may not be Stanford, but there are plenty of other doctoral programs out there that will accept virtually anyone as long as they have a master's.

A few generations ago, it was different. There were fewer graduate programs, they were all B&M, and they were more concentrated at the top private schools and flagship public schools. If your undergraduate performance was only middling, or if you weren't located in the right place, you wouldn't necessarily get the chance to continue on. Now you do.

I'm not saying that today's educational system is any better or worse, just different. But if you have spent years in a system that does support a quid pro quo -- where finishing step 1 guarantees that you can move to step 2 -- then maybe it's natural to assume that the same sort of quid pro quo arrangement will exist when it's time to look for a job.

Unfortunately, it doesn't.

 

I would challenge this general idea. Here's my thinking. First, in your own scenario, we're talking about a low selectivity standard. We know that many programs essentially have open admissions standards and so anyone who meets the minimum standards can get in. But here's where your thinking goes wrong. Just because you can get in doesn't mean that you can get out. We've seen study after study demonstrate that people drop out of these programs at alarming rates. Why? Maybe it's the cost. Maybe it's life-stuff that happens to derail people's plans. And maybe it's that they just don't belong in that level of the education system. There are countless stories of smart people with good degrees from good schools who just can't finish their grad degrees.

What you seem to be saying is that anyone who graduates from high school can earn a PhD and that's just crazy talk.

 

I don't disagree with CalDog; the points made are great. But I have a different take.

Often when people aspire to greater heights, they don't know what it takes to get there. Because we've vaulted higher education to such a lofty perch in our society, degrees seem to be pathways. They're not.

Listen instead to people who have been there. They'll tell you about how much more nuanced, complicated, and involved these things are.

For me, some of the things I've done yet hear simplified processes about are:

-- enlisting in the military
-- becoming a military officer
-- getting a civil service job
-- becoming a PMP
-- becoming a Ph.D.
-- getting an academic job
-- using the Ph.D. to advance a private sector career
-- writing a dissertation

I'm sure there are others. None of these were particularly impressive. But also, none of them were very simple or straight-forward.

If you want to know about how to become something, don't assume. Ask someone who's done it instead.