My master's wasn't worth it...

No, not me. I'm talking about these guys...

My master's wasn't worth the debt - MBAs: A dime a dozen? (1) - CNNMoney

It's ironic, I think. The first guy in the article says his MBA wasn't worth it because they are a dime a dozen. The second person in the article says she wishes she had earned an MBA instead of a master's in education.

What say you?

 

How could the one guy have degrees in chemistry and biology and not have a job? I thought the sciences were in high demand?

As for the Masters in Education, I can totally relate to that. Had I found the WNMU program first, I wouldn't have done the MSEd from Walden. I have my share of student loans from my programs, but not nearly what these guys have.

-Matt

 

The economy plays a role in this problem but most of the time is poor career planning. Going to a full time MBA unless is from a top school is not the best decision nowadays with so many online opportunities around. The MBA is risky so is best to stay employed while you do your MBA and then look to move up once you get it.

I think most of these stories are similar, these are graduates that went to school full time for graduate studies. The bottom line is that graduate school is risky so it is not very smart to quit your job to do a masters degree unless you need to because the program is only offered full time.

 

In 2011 (according to the BLS), the unemployment rates by education level were:

High School: 9.4
Bachelor's: 4.9
Master's: 3.6
Doctorate: 2.5

Average pay in 2011:

High School: $33K
Bachelor's: $55K
Master's: $66K
Doctorate: $81K

 

I thought about getting a degree in biology and saw that most of the jobs in my area asking for it were with temp agencies paying around $11 an hour in most cases. I used to work with a biology major who had trouble finding a job even though her GPA was high. I've heard the same complaints from chemistry majors, but it's a little bit easier for them since they are desired by the pharmaceutical industry. A masters can help for chemistry, but a PhD would be better. As far as the life sciences such as microbiology, I had high school teachers with PhDs in those subjects. There's not a lot of work out there for them outside of academia. The biotech industry is growing where I live and even they prefer chemistry and engineering majors over biology majors.

 

Folks say that the sciences are in high demand, but the reality is that not all sciences are equally employable. I have heard that folks with masters and even PhDs in Chemistry, Biology, and Biochemistry have had a some problems finding jobs because many of their main employers (like the pharmaceutical industry) have made major cuts in R&D. Subsequently, the jobs aren't there in the abundance you would expect.

Most of the "science" folks that I know who are employed and paid well are working in non-science areas that require programming skills and/or mathematical modeling skills. I personally know more physicists that are doing statistical modeling for finance companies that doing anything related to actual physics. It is the same with my math, stats, and CS major friends.

 

I'm going to sound like a dick, but going $120k for a bachelors and masters from those institutions is just the height of stupidity. I don't feel bad for the guy.

I don't necessarily feel bad for Jen (the girl with the education degree) either. Her Ed.M is from BC, she has an ALM from HES that she earned while working for the school (that's why it was only $500) and a BS from Penn State. She's employed, maybe it's not in her desired field, but in this economy she's blessed to have a very good job (that pays more than any teaching position she would get).

 

There is no degree, no matter how "practical", from any school, that comes with a 100% guarantee of satisfying employment -- just as there is no college degree, no matter how "impractical", that is 100% guaranteed to condemn you to unemployment for life.

Now, it's true that some degrees are more likely to lead to good jobs than others. And it's true that the chances are generally better than average with STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) degrees. But nobody claims that those chances are 100%.

So of you want to find people who had lousy outcomes with STEM degrees, they are out there. Such people may not be common as the ones who had lousy outcomes with (for example) business or humanities degrees. But if you look hard enough, you can find them.

 

I have known engineers (both employed, or looking for employment, or in classes I have taken), including some from high ranked universities, that did not have a clue on how to apply their learning to the workplace. The same probably holds true for science graduates.

 

Here is my post...that's all in there! lol
[video=youtube;QwIHbsDRu7Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=QwIHbsDRu7Y&NR=1[/video]

 

I think that one of the problems that people face is one of location. Many people are well qualified for employment but they don't want to go where the jobs exist. They want the jobs to magically appear in their neighborhood. If you have a Masters egree in Chemistry but don't want to leave Podunk, you can hardly blame the degree or the economy.

 

In addition to all that's said above I'll add that there are far too many people getting educated with the goal of becoming employed as a drone worker bee with more education than you need to be a drone.

If you're going to get educated across multiple disciplines the goal needs to be to innovate and apply that knowledge in a way that generates a decent income for yourself without relying on another employer. Create something marketable besides yourself and the product will sell/carry you. You'll never be unemployed.

 

And that's just for starters.

Did any of these folks happen to have. . . accents difficult for an interviewer to follow? Poorly formatted resumes, or resumes with errors/omissions? Dress improperly for the interview? Some folks need interview practice/coaching as well.

 

I wonder what the median income is for the doctorate? 81k is weak sauce.

 

Totally agree. Staying in one place is not realistic in this day and age. You gotta go where the opportunity is because I don't want to pay your unemployment benefits because you won't pick up and move.

 

Talk of ROI (and related values) regarding degrees misses a very important point. Who do you want to be and how do you want to live?

If you want to be a certain thing and going through a particular university program gets you that, what is the ROI on that intangible?

If you want to live a certain lifestyle and you have to spend a lot on a degree program to get it, what is the ROI on that intangible?

When I did my Ph.D. at Union 10 years ago, I didn't expect the financial ROI to be that high. I was earning a degree specializing in a field I'd been involved with and reading about since I was 18. It mattered that I did my Ph.D. at that school in that field. The financials--about $75K--were horrible. In fact, I didn't expect my pay to go up at all. But I still did it. That my salary tripled in just a few years was a shock, and certainly not why I did it. (But it was certainly and directly due to having the Ph.D.)

The experience was so valuable and transformative, I wonder about how to leverage that experience again. Not another triple, but another transformation. It's interesting.

 

Unfortunately, the employment market, even for people with graduate degrees, is a lot less favorable than it was 10 years ago. Yet the costs of university programs are even higher.

And what this means is that you can go through a particular degree program, and spend a lot of money on it ... and yet you may not become that certain thing, and may not live that certain lifestyle. Just ask the people in the featured news story.

And in that case, the ROI on those intangibles is easy to calculate: it's zero. In fact, it can be much less than zero, once you factor in the very tangible debt.

 

Anecdotes are fine, but the numbers don't lie. Higher education is strongly correlated with salary. And the cost of not doing what you can to become what you want is innumerable.

Look, I'm just objecting to turning the discussion of whether or not to pursue a degree--at whatever level--into an ROI calculation. There are too many other issues and facets in play. And doing good things for your development leads to other good things--often things you cannot and did not anticipate. Be open to what can be, not just what you plan to be. You'd be amazed.

 

I'm happy to report that my master's in education technology has paid off handsomely. In fact, my boss later told me that I was a shoe-in for my current position because of my master's. It's also the most enjoyable job I have had in my entire career.

 

I got my MS-ITM from Touro and it cost $6,750 ($1,100 out of pocket and the rest covered by my employer). I have made more then $6,750 on some of my worst teaching semesters.