Advantages/disadvantages of distance education without work experience...

My 17 year old son has started is taking courses at what we call the University of Yo Daddy. He should graduate high school in December with 40ish college credits via CLEP, SL, PF, and community college. I could see him easily being done with his associates by the following May. If things are rocking along why not just push right through and have him done with his bachelors by 19? It looks really doable at this point. He could stay home and save me loads of money along the way.

His career interests are (in order):

physical therapy
occupational therapy
nursing
rehabilitation science/training

My thoughts are this...he's a kid and he may not know what he will want on down the road. At this point we are working on all of his science/math prerequisites that are required for these career paths. If he decides he doesn't want to do PT then I'd rather him not be stuck with a generic science degree and no real options for a career solid career. At this point I am looking at something like this degree: Excelsior College | Program Details

It allows for lots of sciences and also business and management. If he stops there he will have a general applicable degree. He could easily slide over into nursing, PT, OT or whatever.

The real concern is if he stops with and undergrad and tries to enter the workforce. Does a Big 3 type degree hurt his chances at 19-20 and no experience?

 

Simply put, yes. 19 with no work experience is going to be a hindrance when he's looking for work. The Big 3 aren't really designed for people your son's age. If that's the route you decide is best for him I'd advise doing some volunteer work in an area of interest. I know that many HR generalist look at extracurriculars beyond just the degree when hiring entry level applicants. The Big3 doesn't really provide an opportunity for those types of things to bolster a resume when professional experience is lacking. Just my two cents.

 

Well, you asked

I'm pretty sure that

• having completed an associate's degree bars a student from ever getting Pell Grant funding for enrollment in a subsequent associate's program, and
• having completed a bachelor's degree bars a student from ever getting Pell Grant funding for enrollment in a subsequent bachelor's program.

So one hidden cost of pushing toward conferral of that bachelor's degree, and even that associate's degree, is that conferral would waive his right to Pell Grant funding at that respective level – when he might otherwise have applied that support to something, at either level, that he "really wanted" to do. Like an associate's or bachelor's in a health care field?

You mention a concern that a "generic science degree" might not have high value in the job market. Especially for a young person, especially drawn to the health professions, I really wouldn't attach ANY premium to a B.P.S. in Business/Management from Excelsior College compared to, say, a degree in any of the big natural sciences from any credible school. And I love Excelsior College for many things.

I also wouldn't say that something like a B.P.S. in Business/Management would let anyone "easily slide over into nursing, PT, OT, or whatever." It would check a box as a bachelor's degree. All else being equal that natural science degree would look better than this one for admission to a health profession program.

 

Thanks for your input. From everything that I gathered from admission departments and former students I'd have to say that I am not so sure about that. The B.P.S. degree allows room for all of the required prerequisites for the degrees that I mentioned as well as some business and management. A specific degree is not required. It's the science prerequisites that are really looked at for admission.

There is a pretty long list of folks that have biology degrees that decided that the medical field was not for them. Many of them have no real job prospects.

My question is would it be better to have a natural science/math degree from a state school or a B.P.S. degree from EC if my son has no desire or passion to be a science teacher?


After having a long discussion with him tonight he seems really keen on the idea of going to nursing school but we shall see. There's a chance that he could admit to nursing school next spring and be done in 18 months. He would be a 20 year old RN. He would also be pretty far along towards his bachelors with the possibility of doing PT or OT if he desired.

 

fwiw, Career counseling: 101+ things you can do with a degree in biology (Kathleen M. Eyster, Advances in Physiology Education, December 2007 31.4 323-328, doi:10.​1152/​advan.​00042.​2007)

Okay: He doesn't have a desire or passion for one common career path for a biology major (science teaching), and he's leaning to though might not be certain about another (health professions).

Besides the possibility of other career paths, does he have a desire or passion for career paths something like a B.P.S. in business/management could likely take him on? You shouldn't put all the onus on the science degree and none on the B.P.S., then push him toward the B.P.S. on that basis.

About nursing school: Awesome! Wow.

As long as he's looking at associate-level nursing or other programs, remember that Pell Grant thing before pulling the trigger on conferral of some other associate's.

 

I do think it's common that additional coursework in science that might not be required, certainly helps.

 

I'm not sure that 19 + no work experience is substantially different than 22+ working at a convenience store. How about some volunteer work at a local hospital?

 

In my own vision and experiences, I would say advantages over disadvantages. This was the same thought when I was in the Marine Corps active duty. 'What if I just wait to complete 4 years active duty, then start B&M college or complete my 4-college while on active duty to save money. Upon active duty completion, I can start graduate school." It is better for him complete his degree early to find internship program, and continue to graduate school.

 

Definitely something to think about. Thank you for the thoughts.

 

My thoughts are this:

Get a degree while you are young and have the benefit of living at home. Then get out immediately so you can pay your own way! I keed I keed...

What would a young guy do with a B.P.S. degree from EC at the age of 19? What are the possibilities? I suggested getting into an entry levele corporate training program such as Enterprise Rent-A-Car.

I would certainly hire him to work for the company that I own. He's a tremendous worker doing labor when I ask him. We don't push our sons towards working for our business though. It's just a policy that we have.

 

Not necessarily, but entering this shitty economy long on consumers and short on producers certainly won't be of any help. He'll be amongst all the other graduates with general degrees, except they'll have gone to B&M and had internships and participated in...whatever it is that kids do at college these days. That will make it difficult.

Kudos to you for having a young go getter who knows what he wants. Most kids his age that I know look like returning Vietnam vets with a thousand yard stare if you ask them anything other than what level their mage is on WoW or the benefits of legalizing MJ.

The distressing thing about this...not distressing but interesting is that he has three or so career choices but you seem to be pushing the generalist idea in case...of what? He wants to a PT, let him go to a good school and work PT. He wants to be a nurse? Same thing. You're pushing for a safe choice, but what is safe about doing what EVERY OTHER KID is doing? Let him set sail for his interests and career goals now and decide later if he does not have that interest. I'd rather hire an RN who decided he really liked working with data more than patients and moved on then ANOTHER generalist who's just looking for something, anything to do.

Sounds like a good kid. Have you thought of looking into the military programs? I know of Guard programs to make people PA's that will pay for all of the school and of course you get a guaranteed job making great money when you graduate. The military needs good medical people and will often pay for their schooling, make them officer, and often times pay additional money for that training as well.

Good job on you for raising him. I have three boys and I hope that they get to where your son is with those options. Just don't be afraid to let him make his own choices.

Good luck.

C

 

In the longer run, work experience and education catch up with each other and balance out. Of the two, education is more easily postponed than working, and as a result, it does get postponed far too often. If an educational credential is within someone's grasp right now, I'd say grab it. Life can, and often will, get in the way otherwise. I've seen highly educated young people with minimal work experience be successful by just being candid about their situation and turning it into a bit of self-deprecating humor.

 

Here's the reasoning: With any of the career choices (besides nursing - Ill get to that next) he needs pretty much the same science courses. PT is a doctoral program only. So he has years before he gets top that point. Many kids realize that they are interested in continuing for another 3-4 years once they get their undergrad. Not only that but PT school are extremely competitive to get in. What if it takes 1 year to get in? The what? What if he can't get in? If he doesn't what are his options with a science degree? I'm trying to give him options based on our conversations together. I certainly wouldn't push him one way for another other than helping him avoid ending up with a degree that doesn't nothing for his interests. I actually got this idea from reading the entrance requirements for PT school. They strongly advise getting an undergrad degree that you are interested in because PT school is very competitive.

Nursing is a different deal. He would be done with his prerequisites by summer and ready to go by next spring. If that is the path he chose I would be thrilled. He would be very young and able to move on to PT or OT if he wanted.

 

Skidadl, it's lucky for your son to have your kind of expertise -kids just don't get help with career/college planning these days.

I think with or without a degree at 19, it's hard to get on a career track (with small exceptions for engineering BS, accounting BA/CPA and RN/BSN). My opinion is that if he thinks he'll want to do something science-y, his plan to get a Big3 bachelor's is a good idea and if that track gets him all the RN pre-reqs so much the better. Getting into an RN program would be good too. He could complete the RN and then decide to finish a BSN or BA in Healthcare Admin or something else. None of these preclude going for a Doctor of PT or OT or even DPharm. Missing Pell Grant money as someone said above would be the only downfall but since you are saving so much by doing the CLEP/alternative credit method, it may not be a big drawback for him/you.

I do advise volunteering in a hospital though for anyone planning a health-related career. Also, he could take a Certified Nursing Assistant class (via a community college or a private company) and that would give him exposure plus allow him to make $13/hour instead of minimum wage, if he decides to work while waiting to finish school. Or he could look into being certified as an EMT.

Jonathan Whatley, thanks for the link to Bio degree careers.

 

My son talked to his grandma last night about all of this. She is a nurse and gave some good advice.

Ironically I have two of my best friends who are male nurses that he will be talking to today or tomorrow. We will let him glean from their careers in nursing.

One thing I do know, my son has a very big caring heart. He is great with people. Everyone finds him easy to talk to. He tends to be helpful and empathetic with folks. He is a sports/health junkie as well. I am a head coach at a private school, so he's had the opportunity to work with me throughout the years with some of my younger teams. He is very good with kids.

Not bad for an all-state football player who scored 45 tds, had 107 tackles, 8 interceptions and was voted the district MVP. BTW, he has offers at a few Division 3 and NAIA schools to play football as well. He's a great kid!

 

That's true but would you rather be a 19 year old with a Big 3 degree and no work experience, no debt and living at home or would you rather be 22, have a state school degree and more debt?

 

Why does it have to be Big 3 degree instead of state school degree at 19? I got my degree from Troy University (Formerly: Troy State University), Alabama state college. He can start banking credits at the big three, then transfer to state school to complete with only 30 credits.

 

One thing that comes to mind here is the value of strong and relevant academic references, especially for someone looking to go on to apply to competitive programs in the Real Goal.

These obviously don't come with CLEPs, DSSTs, or automated courses like those from FEMA. There might also be little or no relationship with faculty in heavily automated courses from some other providers.

Now, I can imagine an instructor for a business capstone for a Big Three business degree writing a compelling recommendation for a graduate applying to a nursing program… but they'd almost certainly, still, want that accompanied with a reference or two from faculty in something more closely related.

Of course there are courses in traditional schools where faculty-students contact besides lectures is severely limited. fwiw, I believe TAs can often, if not always, work as academic references.

 

That is a good point. So far I haven't put a ton of effort into searching for a degree that would fit. With all of the non-traditional credits that he is doing I'm not seeing a great fit so far.

The degree needs room with the following courses and still not be a pure science degree:

8 - A&P I & II
4 - Biology
4 - Microbiology
8 - Physics I & II
8 - Chemistry 1 & II
3 - Statistics
3 - Medical Term
3 - College Algebra
6 - English
6 - History
6 - Political Science
6 - Art/Humanities
6 - Psychology
3 - Sociology
3 - Speech

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