Will there be a day where DETC and RA credits are universally accepted?

Do you think there will be a day where DETC and RA credits are accepted? Meaning there is no bias whatsoever, and RA schools just accept DETC credits almost automatically? Just a curious question, because it seems that a lot of the stigma of DETC credits or education are subsiding.

 

It's bigger than the DETC. The real question is if NA credits in general will be universally accepted by RA schools. I say that there is little or no incentive for RA schools to do it across the board, so it's highly unlikely.

Personally, I couldn't care less about what RA institutions think about NA programs. All that matters is what employers think, and NA grads are getting jobs and good ones, always have. To many if not most employers, the degree on your resume is just something HR needs to mark in the checkbox before allowing you an opportunity to get in. It's up to the grad of any institution to prove his/her skills once inside.

 

Qualifiers like "universally" and "no bias whatsoever" make it very hard to say yes to anything.

 

There was a time when a DETC degree was unequivocally unacceptable to obtain k-12 teacher certification, but the U.S. Department of Education has changed all that -- and now DETC degrees can be used to become a teacher.

The Department of Education is a 900 pound gorilla and is changing the rules -- and not necessarily for the better. Nonetheless, it's happening.

States rights are slowly being replaced with Federal rights (and Federal oversight).

 

Any student of any educational venue who takes and passes the same requisite exams that those of other educational venues are required to pass, should be allowed to hold that license. So in this regard, it's not really a matter of a change for the better or worse, but a matter of changing to doing something that really is just fairness and common sense; the old way failed to meet that standard, and thankfully it's gone.

And while I am a staunch critic of the Government's many failings, this is not one of them. It's just that some people choose to cling to the idea that accreditation type is more important than actually learning, and then failing to realize that the wheat will be separated from the chaff during the demonstration of that learning, and those who belong will mostly remain and those who don't will wash out eventually if not immediately.

 

Using Florida as an example, DETC Bachelors degrees were unacceptable for teacher certification. But the rules have changed and now DETC Bachelors degrees may be used towards k-12 teacher certification because they are recognized by the U.S. Department of Education.

The issue wasn't passing or failing a certification test. The issue was the acceptance of DETC Bachelors degrees towards teacher certification.

 

me again has the correct answer to the OP's question. Institutions currently determine what degrees and credits they will and will not accept. Institutional bias absolutely affect these decisions. The ONLY way that large-scale recognition of institutional national accreditation (as opposed to programmatic accreditation) will be if the Department of Education mandates it as a requirement for Title IV funding eligibility.

The Dept. of Ed's control of federal funds makes it the 900 pound gorilla. We have to do what "ED" says (even when it is bad for students) or "ED" can impose its own bias to deny funds to institutions.

 

Yes, I know exactly what the issue is about. My response to you is based on the impression you gave that you're against the idea of DETC degree holders being able to go this route. And to reiterate, I feel that the rule should've changed, it did change, and more power to it. I want people to be licensed based on demonstrated ability, not based on accreditation brands.

 

I believe most of us are well aware of how institutions and perception itself affects many things tied to this situation, and I couldn't agree more with that concept. However, I don't think what me again said was speaking as strongly to that bigger picture you just detailed. To me, his post was more focused on:

-At one time DETC degrees weren't acceptable for licensing

-It should've stayed that way

-This is all a signal of the Government further ruining education.

I disagree wholeheartedly with all three ideas based on all the things I've mentioned previously.

 

^^^EDIT: I should say I disagree with the last two ideas, since the first is a fact. My mistake.

 

Then why not eliminate the need for a DETC and RA Bachelors degree altogether, if an applicant can pass the certification exam? As it stands now, substandard DETC degrees can be used for teacher certification, due to the DOE.

 

Provocative thought. A similar question is often raised with Bar exams, especially those to become a Lawyer:

One group says: "Nobody should be able to sit for the Bar exam without first going through years of study with a law school!".

The other group says: "Oh, yeah? Well what about these guys who DIDN'T do that?

1. Patrick Henry (1736-1799), member of the Continental Congress, governor of Virginia

2. John Jay (1745-1829), first chief justice of the Supreme Court;

3. John Marshall (1755-1835), chief justice of the Supreme Court;

4. William Wirt (1772-1834), attorney general;

5. Roger B. Taney (1777-1864), secretary of the treasury, chief justice of the Supreme Court;

6. Daniel Webster (1782-1852), secretary of state;

7. Salmon P. Chase (1808-1873), senator, chief justice of the Supreme Court

8. Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865), president;

9. Stephen Douglas (1813-1861), representative, senator from Illinois.

10. Clarence Darrow (1857-1938), defense attorney in Scopes trial of 1925. [Clarence Darrow went to law school for one year, and preferred to study law on his own. He received most of his legal education in a law office in Youngstown, Ohio.

11. Robert Storey (b. 1893), president of the American Bar Association (1952-1953).

12. J. Strom Thurmond (b. 1902), senator, governor of South Carolina.

13. James O. Eastland (b. 1904), senator from Mississippi Wallechinsky, David, "The Book of Lists," 1977

I say, personally, I wouldn't be as comfortable dealing with a Lawyer who hadn't actually gone to Law school, but the Law is a terribly intricate animal with a tremendously small amount of room for error. I'm not so sure I'd want to say Teaching K-12 is on the same level as that, so I'd be a lot more comfortable with someone who passed all the requisite exams and became a licensed Teacher without having gone to a school specifically for that a lot more than I would with a Lawyer being able to take and pass the Bar exam without having gone to law school. However, I admit I'm not against a person sitting for the Bar and being able to become licensed upon passing even without having gone to law school

Ahhh, I was pretty sure that was your stance, now confirmed.

 

It came after-the-fact, but his earlier post gave me pretty strong clues that this was his stance without him saying it that directly the first time.

I agree.

Believe me, no one wants the Government to shrink out of many affairs more than I do. But I try to remain objective with their decision-making even in the face of their seemingly perpetual insanity. As an example, I've had harsh words for them concerning their highly publicized hunt-down of the for-profit sector, but on this licensing matter my feelings are pro change. Still, I share your frustrations with too much Government involvement in education and across the board. I too want them to scale way down.

 

The probability of finding a substandard DETC Bachelors degree is significantly higher than the probability of finding a substandard RA degree, due to the difference in accreditation standards. However, the DOE is breaking down that barrier by lowering the standards.

DETC schools can break free from this stigma at the graduate level by conducting published research, but until that day arrives, it's all DOE hyperbole.

 

I still don't understand why these schools that have good reps don't become RA schools. Take Penn Foster as an example, they have a good rep. so just become an RA school. Same with the Cleveland institute of electronics. I just don't get it.

 

But Penn Foster has I don't know how many students, and its in their best interest to do so. I just don't get it, just get through it and your school is looked at in a whole new light.

 

Penn Foster does have RA for its Career School. The Cleveland Institute of Electronics' rep is good based largely on the success of its grads, but they remain a relative unknown regardless of that. This is a lot like how Nations University regularly turns out grads who get into RA grad schools, even though they themselves are relatively unknown (and unaccredited!).

Some schools like The Cleveland Institute of Electronics find a niche and stick fiercely to that and it works for them. They probably don't see the benefit of RA accreditation outweighing the costs and perhaps a total restructuring of an internal system that they're totally content with already, and they may not even have the funds, though from what I've found cost of accreditation is not as frequently the issue as we'd like to believe.

 

Yeah I'm not knocking these schools, CIE and PF both seem great, well PF I know is great I can attest to that personally. CIE is in a nice place really, they don't need RA accreditation, but if they did grads could go on to Electronics engineering degrees. I really like them though, you can get a BS in electronics there although they call it a B.E.E.T without the S which I don't get, though World College. That is a bit of an odd name, but its OK.