Greenwich University

What is the story with Greenwich university http://university.edu.nf they might not bee an ivy league institution, but they legal status seems pretty robust.

Any ideas?


CFr

 

I'm curious what gave you the impression that their legal status was "robust"? They operate legally under Norfolk Island law, but they are not recognized as an Australian University. Degrees and credits awarded by Greenwich would not be accepted by U.S. universities as those from a recognized foreign university.

The fairest analogy would be to compare Greenwich to an unaccredited, state-approved/licensed school in the U.S. Legally operating, its degrees shouldn't get you into too much trouble, but not useful in almost any situation calling for an accredited degree.

 

I'd be interested to know the latest on the situation with Greenwich, too, since Chip mentioned, a few posts ago, that:

the Greenwich loophole was effectively closed when Australia essentially (as I understand it and subject to correction by someone who knows more than I) decided that Norfolk Island did not know how to, and therefore didn't have authority to, grant accreditation to Greenwich.

Is this true?

DrAW

 

The current position is that the States of Australia are amending their legislation, where it currently is not the case, to specifically exclude recognition of degrees from 'Territories'. This will make it uniform that GU degrees will not be accepted in any State of Australia - the State of Queensland was one of the exceptions.

There are threads here that cover the issues and considerations by the Ausrtalia Federal Government over Greenwich.

No University in Australia will recognise the Greenwich degrees.

So there have been 2 issues - [1] whether an Australian university will accept a GU degree - NO!; [2] the legislative position regarding recognition, adn that is being changed as above.

Their qualifications do not fall under our Qualifications Framework [AQF] - they are not Australian degrees, they are notequal to Australian degrees, the qualifications are not Australian qualifications.

 

To settle the debate regarding the accreditation of Greenwich University once and for all, I refer the readers to the Norfolk Island Act 1979. Section 21 (6) and Schedule 3.



That Act, which defines the legislative powers of the Commonwealth Government and the Norfolk Island Government, clearly states that education is a shared responsibility between the Governments of Norfolk Island AND Australia. As this is Commonwealth of Australia legislation it is readily available free of charge at the Commonwealth of Australia legal reference web site. For those readers who find it difficult to research a topic and find legislation on line, please visit www.law.gov.au , you should be able to find your way from there.



For those of you who have difficulties understanding a simple legal position, I will summarise the legal position. The Norfolk Island Act 1979 requires that both the Norfolk Island Government and the Australian Government pass all legislation relating to education. As the Greenwich University Act 1998 clearly relates to education, both Governments were instrumental in the drafting and approval of the Greenwich University Act 1998. To state that Greenwich University was established solely by the Norfolk Island Government is not only mischievous, it is a legal impossibility and it is a misrepresentation of the facts. The Norfolk Island Government, in accordance with the Norfolk Island Act 1979, does not have the legislative power to pass such legislation.



We value different opinions and views, however let us not deliberately misstate legal facts, even if you do not like them. It does nothing to enhance your credibility in the debate. Please conduct your research prior to expressing your opinions

 

Fred LLB, LLM, LLD, it seems?

Lighten up...It is only a little DL debate forum. Not everyone has the vast legal understanding that you obviously possess hotshot. I forgot to add Juris Doctor to your titles in the subject line...I apologize.

People sometimes do their research and misunderstand it. That could be a possibilty too. The misstatement of legal fact may not have been deliberate. Give people the benefit of the doubt.

 

In accordance with the Norfolk Island Act 1979, Section 21 (6) and Schedule 3, Norfolk Island does have the authority to grant a parliamentary charter to allow Greenwich University to operate. This however, should not imply that there is an Australian or worldwide acceptance of degrees issued by this institution.

I think that there are similarities with state-approval and Norfolk Island's subsequent approval of this school. In both situations, legally, they may confer degrees. The real issue is who will accept the credentials issued from Greenwich and what value is perceived by the holder and his or her peers.

 

Fred,

You stated:

'...both Governments were instrumental in the drafting and approval of the Greenwich University Act 1998. To state that Greenwich University was established solely by the Norfolk Island Government is not only mischievous, it is a legal impossibility and it is a misrepresentation of the facts.'

The whole reason there was such a furore regarding the passing of the Greenwich University Act was that many pressure groups on the mainland suggsted there was no consultation with the Commonwealth prior to the act being assented to. Not one senior official from the Commonwealth has come forward and admitted they were part of the drafting of the Act.

You, however, claim otherwise. May I ask where you obtained such information?

Cheers

George

 

Leaving the legalities to others more qualified, I still maintain that degrees from Greenwich University are not comparable to those from recognized Australian universities. The AQF has rejected the school, so it falls outside Australia's recognized system.

Has anyone had a Greenwich degree evaluated by a foreign credentials evalution service? (I don't recall anyone ever describing such an event around here.) A positive review would go a long way in determining the acceptability of Greenwich's degrees. But if someone looks for Greenwich among the list of recognized Australian universities, one would not find it. That alone says volumes.

I find it interesting that someone comes into the forum with his first (anonymous) post, brimming with very detailed--possibly even accurate--information about a very niche subject, and then lambasts posters who are skeptical about the whole Greenwich matter. Perhaps "fred" will answer George's question, and also enlighted us on his connection to Greenwich, if any.

 

Does any of you know if GU is taking any further action regarding the qualifications business? I think that they would rake in zillions more tuition dollars if they would do what they need to do to become recognized as an Australian university. I like what I see on their web site in my field of interest.

 

I must admit that my first post would have been a tad bit more cautious. Heck, my current posts are more cautious. Makes a person wonder if he is pushing an agenda... I'll just echo Kane's advice, "lighten up." Let someone get a question answered by differing opinions. You can certainly voice your own thoughts, but others may have a different view. They should be heard, as well, without getting all huffy about it.
A careful questioner will take the various views and research it a bit more.

In other words, lets all try to be civil.
clint

 

What has the Norfolk Island Act got to do with accreditation?

A legislative act legally establishing a university is no different than the state licenses that American non-accredited schools possess permitting them to operate, unless a credible quality assurance process took place as a condition of the act's passage.

In this particular case, the evidence seems to be that no such academic evaluation process took place until the AQF examined, and rejected, Greenwich.

Frankly, I'd say that your post serves more to muddy the waters than to settle anything.

But the question here is not whether Greenwich was legally incorporated on Norfolk Island. Everyone agrees that it was. The question is whether Greenwich meets the academic standards expected of an "accredited" university. Most seem to believe that it doesn't.

Something about how that's worded tells me that you are an attorney. Is that true? If so, are you posting here in a professional capacity? Are you representing Greenwich or anyone associated with it?

Who is "we"? Once again, are you a representative of Greenwich University?

 

I must say

It is quite sad if a Greenwich University representative came here for the sole purpose of lashing out at those who simply point out that Greenwich is unaccredited.

I do question whether he is a lawyer, especially one who represents Greenwich University. He did not threaten to sue any of us *S*

Kane

 

IMHO, I believe that Fred is in some way associated with Greenwich. Whether a student, faculty member or the pool boy, his response was well thought out and prepared with a certain degree of finesse.

All of this aside, there is no indication, whatsoever, that the Australian government had any involvement with the "approval" of Greenwich University. From the information I was able to find, the Australian government respects the sovereignty of Norfolk Island when they became a Territory and, while they may not coin currency or have a military (navy, etc.), there does exist a certain amount of latitude in their autonomy. Ergo, Greenwich!

 

I agree, the more I read Fred's post, the more I think he MUST be associated with Greenwich. Of course, he hasn't come back to answer any of his critics.....
I also noticed that he came about 4 days after the previous post, so you would think that he heard about the thread, thought through his response, registered and left his thoughts on it.
His thoughts do sound like a "slickster," do they not?
clint

 

Perhaps 'Fred' is doing some homework in preparation for this?http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,4146349%255E12333,00.html
Cheers,

George

 

Funny

Oh boy...Norfolk Island says Greenwich is a university...I believe California said Columbia Pacific University was university once also.

TOO LAUGH!

 

Rich Douglas: Has anyone had a Greenwich degree evaluated by a foreign credentials evalution service?

John: Last week, John Walsh of Brannagh (who had been and I believe still is owner of Greenwich) Emailed me that Greenwich had been evaluated as exactly equivalent to a US regionally accredited degree by several services. I asked which. He replied that he was away from his files, but recalled one being Lisano International. Lisano is not a member of the main trade organization of credential evaluators (National Association of Credential Evaluation Services). From the website, (www.lisano-intl.com/), it appears Lisano operates from both a PO box and a mail receiving service in Alabama. I reported this to Mr. Walsh of Brannagh, who replied that he would look into this further and let me know.

Marketing note: when my colleagues and I took on marketing for the Heriot-Watt University MBA in 1991, one of the first things we did was get a report on their acceptability and equivalence from 9 or 10 of the major credential evaluation services. This proved a very helpful marketing tool. I would recommend it to any school, especially non-US-based schools seeking US students.

 

Very interesting George!

North

 

Apology to Dr. John Walsh of Brannagh of Greenwich University

A few minutes after I posted my above message, I received an Email from Dr. Walsh of Brannagh, telling me that he'd already had three calls on that posting. He rebuked me (politely) for posting the information on Lisano (which he says is private, but I didn't know that); for stating that he may be the owner of Greenwich (I said that I believed he still was, but didn't know); and for calling him "Mister" (as the Greenwich website points out, he has two doctorates from Columbia Pacific University: a J.D. in law and a Ph.D. in international law).

(For the record, my handbook from the Investigative Reporters and Editors organization, suggests that provided information is deemed to be something that can be made public, unless the provider states that it is private or not for publication. That has been my practice for years.)