CalSouthern Accreditation Question

As everyone probably knows, CalSouthern has submitted an application to WACS and has been determined "eligible" at this point. If CSU achieves candidacy, and later, full accreditation, will this cover the law school as well? If so, I know it will have no impact on the BAR issue as the school will still not be accredited by the ABA, but you would have, presumably, a RA JD. Correct?

 

That should be correct. It would be like a JD from Concord Law School. Concord is RA -- but not ABA.
(Concord is RA as part of Kaplan University; it also has separate NA from DETC).

For bar qualifying purposes, no state (not even CA) cares whether or not a JD degree is RA or NA.
The only things that matter for that purpose are ABA approval or CalBar approval (which neither Concord nor CalSouthern have).

If CalSouthern makes it to the "candidacy" stage with WASC, it will be treated as RA for practical purposes (e.g. credit transfer, qualifying for federal financial aid), even though it will still take years to achieve full accreditation. The regional agencies don't grant "candidacy" status unless they are reasonably sure that a school will ultimately succeed, and the academic community is aware of this.

 

Correction, while Concord is part of Kaplan, which is RA, the law school is accredited by the DETC. It is not RA. Another interesting find is Thomas Jefferson Law, which is ABA, but not RA. They offer an online Masters in Law (JSM), 24 hours.

 

Your correction is incorrect. Concord is both RA and DETC.

For proof, check out Kaplan's page at NCA-HLC (which is Kaplan's regional accreditor). Notice that "Concord Law School of Kaplan University" is specifically llisted as an out-of-state branch campus by NCA-HLC.

You will also notice that Kaplan is authorized to offer two doctoral degree programs. Those happen to be the JD and Executive JD programs at Concord. There are no other doctoral programs anywhere in the Kaplan system.

Want more proof ? OK, go the US Department of Education's Database of Accredited Postsecondary Institutions and Programs and search for "Concord Law". Here's what you will get:

Where did you get the idea that part of regionally accredited Kaplan University would lack regional accreditation?
The whole point of institutional accreditation is that it covers the whole institution.

 

This is not particularly unusual. There are a number of "standalone" law schools -- i.e. not affiliated with a university -- that are ABA but not RA. The US Dept. of Education accepts ABA as a "national accreditor" for standalone law schools.

The problem with this approach is that ABA only approves JD degrees. If a standalone law school wants to offer other types of degrees, like the LLM, they have to get RA or NA to cover them. Otherwise they won't have any recognized accreditation, and won't qualify for federal financial aid.

UC Hastings was formerly ABA-only, but recently got RA for this reason. Southwestern Law is also ABA-only, but recently applied for DETC.

 

I forgot to mention this in the previous post, but NCA-HLC spells this out explicitly on their Kaplan University page:

So NCA-HLC clearly states that they accredit Juris Doctor and Executive Juris Doctor Degrees issued by Kaplan University.
Those are the degrees issued by the Concord Law branch campus -- Kaplan doesn't have any other law schools.

 

I didn't know this... This is great news. I just hope the tuition stays the same. That would make it a heck of a deal.

 

I recently received an email from CalSouthern last week announcing that their tuition will increase to $400/semester hour in January.

 

Interesting. CHEA shows Concord Law School of Kaplan University as being DETC only. CHEA Database of Institutions Accredited By Recognized U.S. Accrediting Organizations

Concord's website draws a distinction between Kaplan University and the law school. It specifically states that Kaplan is RA, and Concord is DETC:
"Kaplan University is accredited by The Higher Learning Commission (HLC) and a member of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA).* Concord Law School is accredited by the Accrediting Commission of the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC)** and registered with the California Committee of Bar Examiners."

The direct link to Concord's accreditation statement is: About Law Programs at Concord Law School | Concord Law School

 

On the matter of Title IV eligibility, I respectfully disagree. Thomas Jefferson is a standalone law school, which, as far as I am aware, is precisely what makes it eligible for Title IV financial aid programs. If a law school is part of a larger university, the university must be either RA or NA to participate in Title IV. Here is the link to the Title IV eligibility page on the USDE website: College Accreditation in the United States-- Pg 9

Regarding the scope of ABA accreditation, the USDE site states the following: "the accreditation throughout the United States of programs in legal education that lead to the first professional degree in law, as well as freestanding law schools offering such programs."

The "as well as" portion of the above would indicate that other programs of a similar content and relevance, in addition to the JD, would be included. I would suggest that my interpretation is correct, which is why non-JD programs that are offered by ABA accredited schools are permitted to participate in Title IV (assuming they are freestanding institutions). Finally, the ABA website lists dozens of schools that are offering post-JD and non-JD programs: (Programs by School | Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar of which the Thomas Jefferson JSM is included.

 

How can DETC possibly accredit a law school? While DETC could certainly evaluate a school's educative processes, it can't possibly have the expertise necessary to measure outcomes. They are in way over their heads.

(I would feel the same way about an RA accrediting a non-ABA-accredited law school, too.)

There are exactly two legitimate accreditors of law schools: the ABA and the CalBar. If neither of these two agencies have accredited a law school, then the DETC and the RAs should stay away.

FWIW, DETC has it's hands full with beauty schools and the like.

 

beauty school by distance learning?

 

Doesn't a school usually need institutional accreditation before getting programmatic accreditation (with exceptions like freestanding law schools)?

 

Don't other state bars accredit their in-state law schools?

 

I see your point, but I'm not sure I totally agree with you. ABA accreditation, to me, is the gold standard in legal education and should be the preferred (if not only) accrediting agency for any program leading to licensure. However, if a student intends to pursue a non-licensure track, thus making the course of study a purely academic endeavor, I see no problem with the DETC, or especially with RA, accrediting the program.

Most business programs are not accredited by AACSB. Many Christian-based programs are strictly RA, not TRACS, ABHE, or ATS. There are dozens of psychology, education, and agriculture programs that are strictly RA, but lack additional, programmatic accreditation. I see no issue with this as long as the student understands the limitations, and again, particularly if the degree of study is intended to be academic in nature with no intention licensure.

 

Here's what happened:

1. Concord, at one time, was an independent institution accredited by DETC.
2. Then Concord was acquired by Kaplan, which had RA.
3. Kaplan, not surprisingly, requested that HLC-NCA modify its RA to cover Concord.
4. This was not straightforward, because Kaplan was not authorized to offer doctoral degrees, but HLC-NCA ultimately agreed to make an exception.
5. So now Concord is covered by Kaplan's RA. But it also remains covered by its old DETC accreditation, which runs through 2015.

So technically, there is a distinction in accreditation between Concord and the rest of Kaplan: Concord is RA + DETC, while the rest of Kaplan is RA only.

Which implies that Concord is RA, as part of Kaplan.

CHEA simply combines the databases from different RA and NA agencies. DETC has a distinct record for "Concord Law School", because they accredited Concord as a distinct institution. However, NCA-HLC does not have any record for "Concord Law School"; they have never accredited Concord Law School, except as a part of Kaplan University.

 

Your interpretation is incorrect. I will let Dean Frank Wu, the Chancellor of UC Hastings College of the Law, explain why. Hastings, of course, is the largest, oldest, and best-known standalone law school in California. For many years, Hastings was ABA-approved -- but not RA. However, Hastings recently obtained RA from WASC. According to Dean Wu, this change was made for the following reasons:

 

In theory, all states have the right to establish their own standards for in-state law schools. But in practice, most states simply use ABA standards. So for most states, the answer is effectively "no" -- they rely on ABA to do it.

California is an exception, since the state bar allows non-ABA law schools, both B&M and DL. A few other states (such as MA and TN) allow non-ABA B&M law schools. But most states just follow the ABA.

 

Well, a few cases non-ABA law schools with RA through a larger parent university come to mind:

• Trinity Law School Santa Ana, CA. Calbar, HLC/NCA RA through Trinity International University into which the previously freestanding Simon Greenleaf School of Law merged.
• San Francisco Law School SF. Calbar, WASC RA through Alliant International University into which the previously freestanding SFLS merged.
• JFK University College of Law Pleasant Hill, CA. Calbar, WASC RA through JFKU which founded it a constituent, then through the National University System into which all of JFKU merged.

 

ICS offers pet grooming. I guess you send in that poodle you washed and cut for the final exam. There's also a truck driving school. I don't even want to know how that works virtually. Dog obedience? Got that, too. You ship your golden retriever to the school and when they open the box and see him still sitting--like you told him to do--you pass.

I didn't find a beauty program for humans, though. But lots of other very interesting examples. It's amazing what DETC-accredited schools offer via DL.

DETC accrediting non-ABA law schools just confuses things. It implies a form of approval that is actually irrelevant. Only ABA and CalBar matter.

No, the school that hosts the law school does not have to be accredited. "A law school must demonstrate that it or the university of which it is a part is legally authorized under applicable state law to provide a program of education beyond the secondary level." (2012-2013 ABA Standards and Rules of Procedure for Approval of Law Schools)

No, other states besides California rely upon the ABA. The CalBar creates a unique situation for California by accrediting non-ABA schools. California has a 3-tier system: unaccredited, CalBar-accredited, and ABA-accredited. Unaccredited schools may deliver instruction by DL or via the classroom; CalBar and ABA schools are classroom-based. Students in unaccredited law schools (like Concord, despite it's "accreditation" status with DETC) must take and pass the The First-Year Law Students' Examination ("Baby Bar") before proceeding past the first year (of 4) of study. It stops about 60-70%--for good. (A recent result was 25% of first-timers passing with 12% of retakes passing. DL students did worse than classroom-based students.)

In the State of California, where Concord is registered as a law school, it is unaccredited. DETC accreditation means even less than usual in this situation.