help for unaccredited degree grad

My friend has a state approved BS degree from CPU (1985). Her career her not suffered in any way as a result of this. But, she's thinking of upgrading this degree for an accredited BS degree through the TESC portfolio assessment (or similar institution), will any credit be awarded for the CPU degree. She also has a lot of other college credit sources - training courses, workplace learning (20+ years), various vocational courses, etc. Any suggestions, ideas on this would be most welcome. The upgrade degree doesn't have to come from RA school, but it has to be accredited, she has no immediate plans for future graduate study. But whilsts on this topic, Are there any accredited schools that may accept the cpu degree for grad admission anyway?

 

Uh Oh

I assume you are speaking of Columbia Pacific University? This school was fined for illegal operation after the State of California ordered CPU to cease operations and it did not. In the State of Oregon has actually declared CPU degrees "Illegal" for use. This could be an eventual time bomb for her.

A degree obtained before CPU went under (1997) is still technically state-approved but the degree is still unaccredited. To the best of my knowledge RA schools rarely recognize unaccredited degrees.

However I could be wrong. Contact TESC, see what happens.

 

It is not likely that she will find an accredited school which will let her in on the basis of the CPU degree unless by accident. She may find a school which will let her in on a provisional basis but I am not aware of any. As Kane points out this could be a time bomb for her especially since some of the stuff written by the State of California appears less than flattering and uses actual case examples which put a very very bad light on CPU.

As for TESC, I have not heard that they accept unaccredited credits (not my area of expertise). Nonetheless, I understand you can do portfolio credit which those courses may become the basis for. With CLEPS & taking the GRE she may have an accredited BA fairly rapidly. Go to Lawrie's site for the accredited BA in 4 weeks information. Not likely to happen that fast but he does have the case of the guy who got an accredited degree in 10 months (??) through CLEP, GRE, etc. In that way she can earn an accredited degree and go on to graduate work.

The risk with the unaccredited BA depending on her job is that it comes to light and there have been numerous cases posted here. It then ruins your career and makes you the butt of jokes.

Dr. Russell Morris who posts here had an unaccredited BA which he considered of mill quality (although many of the credits were accredited CC credits). After earning a regionally accredited Masters and a regionally accredited Doctor of Ministry he went back and did another B.A. and mailed his old unaccredited one back to the school from which it came. Apparently they did not send Dr. Morris a thank you note.

Good luck to your friend. She can do so much better and without a great deal of time passing.

North

 

Thanks to Kane and North for your advice and suggestions:
... Yes, it is (CPU) Columbia Pacific University. She lives & works outside the US, and it has never been an issue. At the time (1985-87) her degree was formally assessed and accepted by the appropriate government agencies in her country, where accreditation is government regulated. In light of the current status of CPU, she doesn't want to keep this skeleton in the closet, even if it means going through the process of applying for admission to any accredited college degree without her CPU degree. (TESC has a BSAST in Clinical Laboratory Science, BA/BS biology, or allied health fields). She has pre-CPU college credits in chemistry, biology, maths, computer programming, laboratory sciences. As well as, substantial work experience (20 years+) as a lab technician, computing administrator, surgical sales representative, nutritional counsellor. Completed numerous in-house training programs and vocational certifications. She's not really interested in postgraduate study, but only if it's the only solution.

 

Your Welcome

Any CPU degree obtained before 1997 is still state-approved. It is not as if she intentionally bought a degree from a diploma mill, she may be able to use that to her advantage, maybe not.

But with CPU's current reputation and the fact it still was an unaccredited degree, she may be better to gain credits using work experience and her other training.

 

This question was also posted at www.about.com on their distance learning board. I answered there thusly:

This question was also posted on www.degreeinfo.com, where I'm sure it will receive good attention. I was going to take a pass and leave it to the many others who will, I'm sure, sufficiently answer it. But since it is here, and it is--refreshingly--not about Century or the superiority of British universities--I'll give it a whack.

Don't expect TESC or any other school to do a portfolio based upon the credits earned at an unaccredited school. The portfolio is designed to give someone credit for creditable knowledge gained outside the university setting, what we call "life experience." It is also designed to measure knowledge and skills in areas not easily tested by standardized tests.

Knowledge and skills gained by taking an unaccredited degree can certainly be measured via portfolio, but don't expect a direct recognition of credits earned.

IMHO, a more likely scenario is to find a school willing to admit you to its master's program with your unaccredited bachelor's degree. This can certainly happen, and more frequently that school literature might indicate. Schools are not going to say right out--in most cases--that they accept degrees from unaccredited schools. But these things are very often negotiated. Colleges and universities in the U.S. enjoy a wide latitude; a school could very well admit you. More likely, however, is that a school will admit you tentatively, and require that you either go through a probation period, or do extra coursework to qualify for normal admission. You have to do the leg work and ask.

Another option is to be admitted without a bachelor's degree based upon your other qualifications. Similar to above, this is where a school might take you directly into their master's without the bachelor's. Again, this is the kind of thing that is negotiated.

Another option still is to take the Heriot-Watt MBA, which does not require a bachelor's. Non-degreed applicants have to complete three (of nine) MBA modules to gain admission. I doubt the lack of an accredited bachelor's would be a problem with the MBA on top.

Or you could try to get into a DETC-accredited master's. One of those schools might be more receptive to an unaccredited bachelor's. DETC accreditation doesn't always carry the weight of regional accreditation, but it does answer that famous--if misunderstood--question: "Is it accredited?" You'll always be able to answer, "Yes." Find a list of these schools at www.detc.org.

Semi-finally, you could go earn an accredited bachelor's, like you alluded to up front. But instead of being give credit for everything, you could earn the credits via testing. I did an A.A. degree in eight weeks and a bachelor's in 18 months, along with a second bachelor's degree a few months later. This was almost all by testing. And I was 21 when I graduated, certainly without a great deal of experience. You could pass enough exams in a pretty short period of time to graduate. Schools like TESC and Excelsior do not have minimum time-in-program requirements.

Finally, you could go ahead and do another unaccredited master's degree. That is not what I recommend, but only you know your circumstances, and whether such a degree would continue to be useful to you.

Good luck, and I hope you get plenty more guidance on www.degreeinfo.com.

Rich Douglas

 

Re: Re: help for unaccredited degree grad

Actually, the degree was a Th.B.--with only the last 32 hours being unaccredited--which, of course, made the degree itself unaccredited. I was allowed admission into the RA/ATS master's program because most of the credits were RA, however, since the degree was not, I was admitted on academic probation. After the first semester this was lifted. I was then able to gain admission into a RA/ATS D.Min. program.

After earning the D.Min., I completed a BA by transferring the undergrad work to--and completing 32 hours at--a RA university. I then mailed the unaccredited diploma back to the president of the school from which it came, with a letter explaining my reasons why. As North has correctly noted, I did not receive a Thank You note!

 

Dear Mr. Douglas:

Regarding the following, which was snipped from your recent post:

"Don't expect TESC or any other school to do a portfolio based upon the credits earned at an unaccredited school."

I believe the sentence is as accurate as it is misleading. Speaking from my limited experience with COSC, I think you are quite right that they wouldn't "do a portfolio based upon the credits earned at an unaccredited school." They seemed, however, quite receptive to having me prepare a portfolio -- schools review portfolios, students "do" them -- on the work that went into a class at an unaccredited school. (I might add that I found the whole portfolio process too much of a hassle so I didn't pursue it.)

Cordially,
Richard Kanarek

 

Hi,

You may get some guidance from:-

http://www.altcpualumni.org/

Regards,

Neil Hynd

 

Any CPU degree obtained before 1997 is still state-approved - this is a strong keypoint. I have one example here, I know of one person with a CPU degree (1989), that was able to enter UOP's MAOM program on a probational basis. This person was one of the TV speakers of the World Wide Church of God. This entry took place in late 92/early 93. I do know that this person graduated with a Master of Arts in Organizational Manegement.

During the time the church - World Wide Church of God was pressuring UOP on the basis of that their own college - Ambassador College did not have regional accredition and a pool of them wanted graduate degrees.

Keep in mind that most if not all but (1) had their BS/A from Ambassador College. This person was one of the top persons at the church, well respected, and a long term history with the church at the Director level.

 

It's important to note that 1992-93 was well before the implosion of CPU with the California higher education authorities. I'm not at all confident that such an arrangement would work right now (even with a pre-1997 CPU degree....reputations spread fast).


Bruce

 

Re: Re: help for unaccredited degree grad

If the 'IN-OZ' means what it appears to mean ... there are more than one lone person here in Australia with degrees from CPU that have been assessed by DEET and its State variants to be acceptable here in Australia. Tjis assessment is valid and enduring unless someone has 'sneaked' something past them, or there has been a purposeful misstatement of fact!

I will not mention names, but I know of a senior beauracrat in local government , and the CEO of global leading edge automtive component manufacturer ... and they are just 2, and just 2 in Victoria.

Does that help?

I know how she feels and empathise with her - she can't get directly into an executive stream masters program somewhere? Others have, to overcome similar problems.

Just a thought from an old fart....!

She can't really wait like me for someone to become DETC accredited and then .....

Peter French, Melbourne, Australia
BEd MEd MAcc (UNE)

 

Thank you, Mr French... it sure does help. You're a gentleman! Would you believe I only found out about CPU from postings on this board only a few months ago. I didn't have the heart to tell her.

Do you mean applying locally to a Master's program?
Has there been any negative backlash here about CPU?

 

Re: Re: Re: help for unaccredited degree grad

Very interesting Peter. I am not familiar with the process but does that mean it has been assessed as equivalent to an Australian (equivalent of accredited) degree?

North

 

I may have the answer your friend is looking for...


Can I be admitted if I have an unaccredited bachelors degree?

"A student from an unaccredited institution, or one that offers the equivalent of bachelor's degree instruction but not the degree itself, may be considered for admission under special procedures. More information is available from the Graduate School.


University of Oregon Graduate School

Hope this helps!

 

Please don't tell anyone that i am a gentleman - it spoils my image

I am relying on

(a) the above statement made by you:
"...At the time (1985-87) her degree was formally assessed and accepted by the appropriate government agencies in [Australia], ...where accreditation is government regulated...'

(b) the fact that the assessorts made an informed decision, and that stays as it is no a qualified statement

(c) that CPA degrees were not illegal at the time of receiving the award

(d) som'rominent' people here have CPU doctorates, but i am not going to publicly name them [understandably, I hope]

(e) entry to further study is based on the credentials of the person applying and one fo those credentials is previous academic qualifications - if they are foreign they will need to be assessed, and if they have already been assessed, that assessment should stand.

There will always be the case where someone may interfere and state that the CPU degree is not legal/valid/appropriate, so don't adverstise the university application is being made to here; or where a university iwshes to make its own inmdependent assessment - but this is not always the case, and in any evernt she can shove the equivelancy certificate she has in their face - she still has it? MUST keep it and copy it and have copies notarised!.

North, I am NOIT sayting that CPU degrees are regarded as accredited out here, but I am saying that her equivelancy certificate is valid.

Nilf - feel free to contact me on [email protected] or mobile 0413 126 728 if you wish to - there is more i would 'say' than what I would 'write'.

Please keep me posted?

Peter French
Melbourne

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: help for unaccredited degree grad

In short, if the statement made as to assessment out here is correct - YES!

I have a PhD from American Coastline which I wouldn't put up - the work has been adequately recognised as it continued from my 78 unit MAcc research component; ACU is a DETC candidate but someone from here will probably and typically mount a campaign to make sure it doesn't make it; DETC is not recognised as equal out here by NOOSR - ask John Bear why!; DETC doesn't recognise doctorates - someone tell UNISA? I also have an EdD from Summit done under Mel Suhd [not Ray Chasse - sorry detractors!]whom John Bear tells me he respects; David Yamada is doing his PhD at WISR and may study under David Schwartz who is a Summit PhD [as is Natalie Rogers] as he is a faculty member there; but i won't be putting that up either. Frankly DETC will do me, and I don't 'need' the ttile very often anyway

Stranger things have happened than a CPU degree being given the 'tick'. If I got a 'tick' i would be very happy and frame it next to my degree with pride. Some of us have deon a hell of a lot of work and whether the degree is RA, DETC, or neither, doesn't necessarily make it worthless. If someone want to chuck shit - go ahead ... at least someone else is being left alone. When Quinn Jackson was getting lamsed and 'outed' someone even had the stupidity to try the same thing on me - as if i had used a 'fake' degree to get access to a masters program. That is the sort of rubbish that sometimes emanates from here.

I have a simple rule:

A. undergraduate degrees - a good apossible and for US RA is a must

B. professions and licenses - best degree or US RA degree.

C. masters in US if licensed or in a profession - RA unless a DETC will do forever - even when you divorce and shift etc.

D. Australian licensed/profession - there will be a masters somewhere or if US and you can't afford RA, DETC at the least.

E. Doctorate - for teaching, the best; non teaching requirement, whatever meets the individual needs whcih may well include acceptability.

Tom Head thinks that I should be prepared to use my 'PhD' sig line - in real life i don't need it ... to book a restaurant or join in a pissing contest? ...well THAT is completely different

So endeth the lesson

Peter French
MEd MAcc
Accountant, Teacher
Australia

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: help for unaccredited degree grad

Of course, DETC does not have a "candidate" category. Either a school is accredited or it is not. ACU is not. (See www.detc.org for a list of accredited schools.) Interesting that Dr. French would question the DETC's accreditation of doctorate-granting UNISA while
(mis-) stating that DETC has granted candidacy to the same "school" that awarded his.

That someone would serve as a faculty member of one unaccredited school while holding a doctorate from another shouldn't be surprising.

One might weigh the rest of the "lesson" by considering the above. What would be surprising would be to find someone in a tenured, doctorate-required faculty position at an accredited school holding a Summit or American Coastline Ph.D. That would be a shocker.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: help for unaccredited degree grad

G'day Rich - wondered how long it would take you to reply...

I don't intend to develop this item or get into an argument with you Rich - NEITHER of us wins, so what is the point?

Taft and ACU are 2 who are seeking DTC accreditation at the moment - that doesn't say that they are accredited and it isn't what i said, which you are well aware of. Being a candidate doesn't put them into any class other than that they are in that position - maybe they succeed and maybe they don't, and also maybe a group works really hard on making sure that they don't succeed - and that hasn't happened before?

From a slightly more distant viewpoint than you are taking, it is interesting to consider the position of UNISA who do issue doctorates and to US students, and are DETC - so is the DETC accreditation 'partial' for UNISA as they [DETC] have requested other US applicants to discontinue their [non first degree] doctoral offerings?

And for your information, I am not pushing the barrow of non RA qualifications. As for the 'bait' question as to a Summit/ACU graduate being on an RA faculty, I'll let you do your own homework ....

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: help for unaccredited degree grad

Of course not. But a lack of evidence is not evidence.

Peter, you brought up Summit and ACU, then made a couple of misleading comments as to the respectability of your degrees from those schools. (All the while downplaying their importance to you. You got 'em, but you don't need 'em. They're legitimate, but you're above all of that.) As for the bait, I didn't try to give credence to degrees from those schools, you did.

Well, a degree from either Summit or ACU would not be acceptable in any situation requiring a degree from an accredited school. WISR is respectable, but unaccredited. Finding someone at UCLA with a tenured position and a Summit/ACU doctorate would be a helluva thing.

Finally, to repeat, ACU is not a candidate for accreditation with DETC. There is no such thing.