Petition the ABA

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by mdg1775, Apr 2, 2002.

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  1. mdg1775

    mdg1775 New Member

    I have recently moved to California and I decided to try the B & M approach to getting a law degree from an "ABA" School. I contacted several schools:

    Santa Clara
    USC
    UCLA, etc.

    The admission counselor at one school asked me about my undergrad at TESC and asked me if "TESC" was a real school because SHE HEARD that it was "not a real school!" I told her that I heard that she wasn't a "Real Admission Counselor...But I am sure she has proof....Just like TESC is Accredited by the same body as Princeton, Penn State, Rutgers, and Temple.

    I am concerned that now that I want to go to an ABA/B&M Law School that my DL background will prohibit me! If I have to resign to going to a DL law school I want to ensure that I will be able to use the degree for my professional/personal benefit.

    I plan to petition the ABA to at least review some of the DL Law Programs and at least come up with a list of recognized or recommended schools. Some type of recognition from the ABA would at least provide an air of legitimacy...and a school like Oak Brook(for example) is a safe recommendation based on their past test performances. The ABA can put a disclaimer stating that they do not "Approve" DL Law Programs, however they recognize/recommend certain one's.

    AAAAARGH!!!!!


    Mike
    AA, Burlington College, NJ RA
    BA, TESC
    MS, SMSU (1993?)
     
  2. David Appleyard

    David Appleyard New Member

    Mike:

    I assume that your first call went to Santa Clara University.

    It seems that SCU has never heard of TESC or any of the other RA credit banks. They require some proof that TESC is RA and that burden falls on the student. How odd.

    University of Southern California was very receptive. While they had not heard of TESC, they commented that if they were RA, you had a GPA of 3.50 and LSAT score of 165, you would be considered. Any investigation into the school (TESC), if required, would be done through their department.

    UCLA was as receptive as USC, with similar minimums.

    My suggestion would be move a little farther down the list and try either of these schools.

    As to the point of contacting the ABA for an approved DL Law school... there are none.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2002
  3. James Barrington

    James Barrington New Member

    suggestion

    Don't worry about that counselor.

    Just apply to the schools you mentioned and see what happens. You should also apply to some of the lesser know ABA B&M schools in CA. How about:

    http://www.jeffersonlaw.edu/index.cfm

    Its in sunny San Diego, too.

    Good luck.

    JB
     
  4. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I think that you are smearing all kinds of separate issues together.

    1. The schools you named are all prestige schools with very selective admissions. Any applicant is going to have to sell his or her self.

    There is this pervasive assumption here on Degreeinfo that every applicant will be admitted automatically to any program. Then the next question is: Why doesn't everyone on earth simply choose the one program that lies at the very "top" of the hierarchy?

    Of course it doesn't work that way. If a law school recruits from among rich kids with connections, who are of traditional age and who have graduated from full-time on-campus prestige colleges, you may be at a disadvantage.

    But there are any number of ABA-accredited law schools in California that specialize in things like teaching older adults, offering part-time and night classes, and stuff like that.

    2. The fact that an admissions counselor at a prestige law school had never heard of TESC shouldn't be exaggerated until it becomes a blanket rejection of all DL graduates. It does mean that TESC has less name recognition than Amherst. So a TESC graduate would probably need something more, like an interesting resume detailing what you were doing in the years while the other kids were attending frat parties. You will have to sell yourself, and I think that with some imagination TESC could be spun into an advantage.

    3. There is no suggestion that ABA law schools reject DL graduates as a matter of policy. But even if we assume for the sake of argument that they did, then California has dozens of non-ABA law schools to choose from. Some of them are RA (New College, JFK, LaVerne..), and some of them are pretty good. They will qualify you to practice law in California and won't embarrass you.

    Most of these schools offer on-campus instruction. It's not as if law schools are divided between ABA and DL. So even if for some reason you are unable to attend an ABA law school, there is no reason why you couldn't study on-campus somewhere. That's the norm, in fact. DL law schools are actually kind of a fringe of the California law school world.

    I don't understand your distinction between 'approve' and 'recognize/recommend'.

    All the ABA does now is approve/recognize/recommend schools that meet their criteria. They would be opening a tremendous can of worms if they created a 'kinda/sorta recognized/recommended' category for schools that 'kinda/sorta' meet their criteria. Just imagine the internal politics and infighting that would revolve around that one. It will never happen.

    The ABA will either fully accredit DL law schools (don't hold your breath!), or they won't accredit them at all.

    But all this is pretty distant from one admissions counselor not recognizing TESC, isn't it?
     
  5. mdg1775

    mdg1775 New Member

    Calm Down Bill!!

    LOL,

    I just posted "MY EXPERIENCE" trying to find an ABA Approved, Sponsored, Recognized, Recommended, Blessed, or whatever the heck you wanna call it, Law School within my commuting or working area! I didn't know that if I had multiple topics...that I would have to do a different post for each one! And I am gonna do it again....

    Just because I have a DL Degree from TESC...why shouldn't I shoot for the top rung of the ladder! I may not get accepted but I will be taken seriously once I get past the initial nonsense (the ignorant admissions rep on the phone call to one school this morning, for example). If I want to go to Santa Clara, Pepperdine, UCLA, etc. I should be commended....and I may just be a catlyst for them to recruit some DL applicants to diversify their applicant pool.

    We are breaking barriers! Everyone that gets an education via DL and gets that Acceptance Letter to a Post Grad Program; gets into an ABA Law School, obtains a great job or promotion, etc. We are making DL become more and more of presence that cannot be overlooked. This forum has taught me that I don't have to settle for being second class just because I have a DL Degree from a school that is not well-known outside of the world acadamie of Distance Learning. I can use a TESC BA to get a job and go on to the next level in my higher education.

    Bill...I want to thank you! I am going to apply to all the top schools in California (USC, UCLA, UC Berkley, Stanford, Cal State Fullerton, and Hastings) and post my acceptance letter on this forum! I just signed up with www.lsdas.org and I have already taken the LSAT (165...thank you very much). You can write me a letter of recommendation to help me out!!

    Mike

    AA, Burlington College, NJ
    BA, TESC
    MS, SMSU (2003 unless I take my hiatus for law school)
     
  6. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Re: Calm Down Bill!!

    I say go for it. If I was ever inclined to apply to law schools (which I'm not right now), I'd apply to Harvard just for the hell of it. It's literally right next door, and the worst they can do is cash my application fee check and say no. I've wasted a lot more on sillier things than that.


    Bruce
     
  7. Richards

    Richards New Member

    I have a friend who got his BBA from Univ of Phoenix -- not DL, but I don't think the Univ of Phoenix diploma specifies whether it was DL, on-line or residence -- and got into and graduated from Santa Clara law school. I am a 1L at Santa Clara right now, and I have my MBA from Univ of Phoenix -- but since I have a regular BS (Cal Poly), I don't know if they really cared about my MBA or not...

    If your degree is RA, I don't see why it would matter where it was from. My understanding is that if your grades aren't that good, or if you went to a school nobody has ever heard of, then the LSAT takes over as the number one factor. If you get a stellar LSAT score, you'll get into law school regardless of whether your BA or BS is from TESC or Harvard.
     
  8. mdg1775

    mdg1775 New Member

    Re: Re: Calm Down Bill!!

    You are absolutely right! Hell, I wasted $500.00 bucks in Las Vegas on the drive out to California....that could have equalled ten (10) different applications to 10 different schools. And the worst thing that could happen is that I could get accepted and then have to work my butt off! LOL

    I am extremely motivated!

    Thanks Bruce!!


    Mike

    AA, Burlington College, NJ
    BA, TESC
    MS, SMSU (2003?)
     

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