Professional Qaulifications versus Academic Degree

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by morleyl, Aug 10, 2012.

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  1. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    Do you think for the adult learner a professional Qualification is just as attractive as an Academic degree? Especially in Europe, you can get a respected professional qualification up to Masters level. Its probably cheaper and faster but standard is just as good as any respected university.

    Is this something that is acceptable in North America?
     
  2. soupbone

    soupbone Active Member

    I think this largely depends on the the type of field you're working in. In the IT field, professional certs are held in very high regard. If I were researching leaving a particular field and entering another one, I would google till my mind was mush making sure an investment in a degree/cert or professional cert was worth it, and the ROI was high enough to spend the money.
     
  3. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    It depends on your goals. Masters and PhDs have a huge weight if you are in academic research and teaching but not as much if you are in Industry.

    In IT for example, you might have a Masters degree in Information Security but nobody would take you seriously unless you hold a CISSP or CISA credential. So in Security, a CISSP or CISA holds more weight than a Masters degree for most professional jobs. The same in Accounting, a CPA is more valuable than a MACC.

    However, you can teach accounting with a MACC but you might not be able to teach accounting with only a CPA.

    So it depends on your goals and field.
     
  4. Andy Borchers

    Andy Borchers New Member

    I advise my students to go both ways. Many employers have degree requirements for many jobs. If you don't have a degree they can't hire you. Also some employers may list a masters degree as a plus. If so, a very quick way to say "no" is to knock out every candidate without a masters.

    That being said - there is much to be said for professional experience and certification.

    How about some of both? That's my advice.

    R Andy

     
  5. Sauron

    Sauron New Member

    Certifications that are over subscribed tend to not carry much weight in my opinion, there would be a Comptia Network+ versus a CCNA. If you can attain the higher networking certification then it may be pointless to start your studies for a lower tier certification in the same subject matter. Comptia certifications are a fine metric for general competency and having a baseline understanding of networking as an example.

    I respectfully disagree with RFValve regarding the CISSP vs a Master in Information Security or Assurance. I'll take a Carnegie or Capitol grad over a CISSP grad given both have equal experience. There is much more coursework and depth of knowledge required for the Masters degree over the CISSP. The CISSP can be attained in six months or less of study given you have the appropriate experience and/or education. With that said the CISSP is well respected and accepted over the more rigorous GSEC from SANS.

    As Andy Borchers advised, go for both. Professional certifications require CEU/CPEs so it is mandatory to maintain your certification by pursuing academic and professional education opportunities.
     
  6. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    Great responses so far. I was more referring to Qualifications and not necessarily Certifications. These then to have direct mapping to academic levels and the exams definitely cover very similar materials. As mentioned earlier, you find this type mostly in Europe especially the UK. Check out (UK qualifications)
     
  7. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    Here is an example of what I mean by Professional Qualifications - This one applies to Architects in the UK or Europe - RIBA
     
  8. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    In some US states, you can qualify for certain state professional licenses solely on the basis on work experience, without any formal education. In California, for example, it is theoretically possible to become a licensed architect, engineer, or attorney after years of work experience under an appropriately licensed professional., without a college degree. In practice, however, this is quite rare today; it was more common historically.

    In the US, unlike most European countries, there is no federal government agency that sets uniform national standards for professional qualifications. The 50 states each set their own standards, which may or may not be consistent.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2012
  9. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I know a guy who has only a high school diploma and not only has he solved/contributed to the solution of every engineering problem ever lobbed at him, he has people with Masters degrees reporting to him in his corporate job. He is, first and foremost, a Machinist. He can fabricate anything. ANYTHING. He taught me how to do electron beam welding. He looks at the drawings for parts designed by licensed engineers and then improves on the design. He is worth his weight in gold to his employer and fortunately, they know it. He is an exceptional case and there are very few people who could do what he has done. For most of us mere humans, we earn degrees and do our best to keep up with new developments in our fields. There are some rare individuals who do not really need that piece of paper to succeed.
     
  10. BobbyJim

    BobbyJim New Member

    This might give readers an idea of the equivalency mapping you speak of.
    National Qualifications Framework - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  11. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    Good point but I am referring to people who actually get training but through another path. I am not talking just about plain experience but more of a means to get training outside of the standard university. Check out what professional qualifications really are..
     
  12. BobbyJim

    BobbyJim New Member

  13. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    There really isn't any US equivalent to this. There is no recognized system for comparing and equating different qualifications earned in different ways.

    However, there may not be as much demand for it in the US. In general, it is much easier to hire and fire people in the US than it is in Europe. So US employers may be more willing to take chances on a job applicant, even if the applicant doesn't have the exact credential that would be most suited for the job.

    *****

    I once knew a European guy who came to the US for graduate school in chemistry. After he left school, he was unable to find a good job in his particular branch of chemistry. However, he had been in charge of IT for his academic laboratory. He was surprised to discover that this experience made him quite marketable in IT, despite his complete of formal qualifications in that field. So he successfully switched careers.

    The guy told me that it would have been much harder to do that in Europe. He said that European employers would have required a formal credential in IT, either an academic degree or an equivalent professional qualification. American employers, on the other hand, were prepared to hire based on their own assessment of previous experience and potential ability, regardless of exact credentials.

    I have no personal experience with the European job market, this is just what I've heard.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2012
  14. NorCal

    NorCal Active Member

    Some people are super sharp regardless of their educational background and can do just fine without one. However, most places will not give you the opportunity to showcase your skills without some initials after your name. I work with a ton of people in high level positions who do not have a degree but they have been around a really long time, and they came into the work force under much different reality then what we face today.
     
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    My friend Boris completed MSc in Aeronautics from University or Marriland, wile in undergrad and then grad school he worked as database admin for the school labs.

    Well 20 years later and he is still a DBA for a major fanatical company.

    Any way I see RN in USA as a qualification yet RN can be with ASN, BSN and MSN degreed.

    Same for PE, in USA PE can be some one with BScEE, MScEE or even Ph.D.

    On the other side if you see a PE, RN or CPA you always know they hold a a recognized academic degree.

    In some areas Qualifications can help to get employment more then degree.
    For example people who have PMP more likely to get hired as project managers even if they don't have academic degree.

    I know that in USA immigrants get equivalency from NACES member service for their Qualifications.

    For example German State-certified Manager BVT is evaluated as Bachelor of Business Management from US RA university.

    Same for City and Guilds GCGI in management - evaluated as Bachelor of Science in Management.

    SOme times its combine qualification.

    Russian Technologist for example.
    This is a US Masters of Science degree , if you analyse the transcript of the program its 180 Semester hours + a final project. In Russia this specialist degree is of FT 5 years duration.

    Its interesting that Washington Accord for example is recognizing not the Qualification but the Academic Degree qualifying for the Qualification.
    So if you are CEng in UK if you earned the qualification without a degree , lets say by mature adult route then you can't be recognized under Washington Accord and also can't register in the International register of Engineers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2012
  16. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator


    good point but perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the concept of reading between the lines. do you really think that someone gets to that level of professional accomplishment without receiving professional training. show me a school that teaches electron beam welding.:kabong:
     
  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    UK, Russia, Ukraine, Germany, Israel are just a few examples of countries that have parallel path for Post Secondary Higher Education.

    In UK a whole Qualification Framework exists with award, certificate and diploma from level 1 to level 7.
    City and Guilds provides something like 500 qualifications that are not directly degrees but actually vocational Qualifications from Hotel management, battler, Technicians, etc.
    HND - Higher National Diploma is an example of Qualification that people study for and it is usually one year short of BEng degree in UK.

    In Germany there is estimated one million of State-certified Technicians/Engineers
    who as of Jan 2012 are on level 6 of GQF, EQF, same level as Bachelors degree.

    In Israel, Vocational colleges for Technicians and Junior Engineers attracting a lot of High School graduates.
    All these qualifications earned in classroom, Appreciation, Labs and passing state examinations.

    Unlike in US where an RN expected to complete at the minimum AS program plus clinical training in Hospitals or similar, then take the RN exams in other countries RN goes to Nursing School.
    Then the qualification simply caries an academic value as well.

    My Mother completed a Technicum in Ukraine in the profession of Tavaroved.
    In US its equivalent to AS degree in Merchandising Management or Business Management.
     
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Right as usual Lerner. Where I live (Ontario, Canada) Colleges of Applied Arts and Technology offer many technician and technologist programs. After graduation, there are pathways to degree completion, if graduates so choose.

    Our RNs used to go to nursing school to qualify, but nowadays, the minimum required is the 4-year B.Sc in Nursing. Before that degree was mandatory, many RN's pursued the B.Sc. part-time, while working. I once took a night course in biochemistry that was a requirement for that degree. Myself included, there were only 2 or 3 non-nurses in the class of 30-odd. One of my more pleasant academic experiences. :)

    "Nights in white lab-coats..." or whatever the Moody Blues sang, 'way back then ... :)

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2012
  19. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    My son calls my friend an International Extra Terrestrial :) IntET

    This is his interpretation for one of my friends qualifications.

    The International Engineering Technologist (IntET)

    IntET qualification was launched in late 2007 by the Engineering Technologists Mobility Forum (ETMF), which is part of the International Engineering Alliance (IEA). The qualification is awarded by each member jurisdiction followed by jurisdictional identifier, eg IntET (UK) for the UK.
    Benefits of IntET professional qualification In addition to the benefits gained through IEng professional qualification (an eligibility requirement), IntET (UK) offers further benefits:
    Letters after your name, eg J. Smith IEng IntET (UK) Easier admission to National Registers of IntET register member jurisdictions The Engineering Council and its fellow ETMF members are pursuing the possibility of future mutual recognition of professional titles, which would further enhance the benefits of IntET qualification.
    Eligibility The IntET (UK) qualification is open to UK-registered Incorporated Engineers who meet the following requirements:
    seven years post-graduate experience two years responsibility of significant engineering work maintaining continuing professional development Please note: Incorporated Engineers who do not hold an accredited degree recognised under the Sydney Accord, or equivalent academic qualification, are currently not eligible to apply for IntET (UK) qualification.
     
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Maybe he saw your friend "phone home." :)

    Sounds like a very valuable qualification.

    One thing I forgot to mention about that biochem. course. It was one of my best learning experiences ever - and not directly due to the course material OR being surrounded by a class full of nurses. :)

    The lab. had many preserved specimens and the instructor allowed me to examine things when my lab work was done. I was able to hold and investigate a preserved human brain and reflect on its immense capabilities.

    I've had some very good opportunities for learning in school, but don't think I've had a more inspiring experience in all my college days -- or nights, as they mostly were.

    Johann
     

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