Penn Foster Now Has Regional Accreditation?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by AV8R, Jul 3, 2012.

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  1. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    So, Penn Foster is now claiming to have regional accreditation. It's listed right on their home page...

    Penn Foster Career School | Self-Paced, Distance Learning Programs

    What I can't seem to figure out though is which programs have this accreditation. They've posted something that makes me think not all of their programs are covered under regional accreditation.

    The part where it says
    is what's throwing me off. I can't make any sense out of this. Any ideas?
     
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  3. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    The regional accreditation agencies offer accreditation to different types of schools, including high schools, non-degree-granting career schools, and degree-granting colleges. Penn Foster has three different divisions -- Penn Foster High School, Penn Foster Career School, and Penn Foster College -- corresponding to these different types of schools. However, the three Penn Foster schools don't necessarily have the same kind of accreditation.

    Penn Foster High School is regionally accredited through the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools, Commission on Secondary Education (MSA-CSE). This is legitimate RA, but it is RA for high schools, which is not the same as RA for degree-granting colleges.

    It turns out that MSA-CSE handles both high schools and non-degree-granting career schools. And it turns out that Penn Foster Career School now has regionally accreditation from MSA-CSE, just like the High School. But again, this is not the same as RA for degree-granting colleges.

    Penn Foster College is nationally accredited by DETC. The College still does not have RA.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2012
  4. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    All of this. It is similar to the issue that the person is having in the "help me get a degree fast" thread regarding her 1980s work she did at a school that was SACS, but not really SACS, it was basically their accrediting arm that did things similar to this. So 20 years from now, and honestly probably a year or two from now when they try to transfer the credit, someone will say "But they are regionally accredited," as it is so convoluted at this point for someone on the outside looking in that is just trying to get a degree.
     
  5. BobbyJim

    BobbyJim New Member

    JBjunior - you are absolutely correct. COE was the career part of SACS until spun-off. I got caught in that non-transfer quagmire with a (10 full quarters) tech program at a real public B&M community & technical college eons ago! I had to do a ~50% replay to get my RA-AS degree. :arg:

     
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    You know you're in trouble when...

    Prospective Student: "What kind of accreditation does your school have?"
    Enrollment Rep: "All kinds...what did you need?"

    Johann
     
  7. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I think people generally understand that there is a difference between a "regionally accredited high school" and a "regionally accredited college".

    But people commonly fail to understand that there is this third category, the "regionally accredited career school". Here in California, WASC calls them "regional occupational programs/centers, adult schools, and vocational skill centers." They are RA, but they aren't high schools and they aren't colleges.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2012
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Oh, wow! But they (at least many of 'em) still DO confer degrees, don't they? If you get an Associates from a career school that's ACCST or ACICS-accredited, you have a degree from a NA school, right? But if you go to one of these "RA career schools" your degree is neither from an NA or a "proper" RA school. Like that lamentable SACS scenario, it's basically nothing?

    Perhaps the Big 6 should either:

    Stop accrediting career schools and leave that to the National accreditors OR
    Deal from one window - no dual standard of utility for career degree-granting vs. other degree-granting schools - RA means RA - period.

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2012
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    BTW - I have no objection to Penn Foster - Degree programs are NA (DETC) and non-degree ones are RA. That's at least comprehensible. What gets me are the WASC-style and former SACS programs that have allowed some schools to be "RA in name only" and confer degrees that, in consequence, are seriously deficient in utility compared to those of other RA schools.

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2012
  10. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    No, they don't.

    For example, the Middle States Association Commission on Secondary Schools (which is the accreditor for Penn Foster Career School, which is the subject of this thread) puts it like this:

    **********

    But they don't confer degrees.

    For example, if you look back at the Original Post on this thread, you will see that it is concerned with the regional accreditation of non-degree programs:

     
  11. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I think maybe you have a mistaken idea about the kinds of schools that are involved here.

    Here in California, it's true that there are a large number of postsecondary programs that are regionally accredited by the WASC Accrediting Commission for Schools. And yes, this is different from the WASC Accrediting Commission for Senior Colleges and Universities.

    So what kind of postsecondary program gets RA from WASC-ACS? Well, they are all non-degree-granting (although they often help to prepare adults for the GED). They appear to mostly be public schools, operated by local school districts, but for the benefit of adult learners (rather than kids). It makes sense for such local school districts to accredit their adult schools through WASC-ASC, simply because the vast majority of their other operations (i.e. K-12 education) are also accredited through WASC-ASC.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2012
  12. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    What we are talking about is situations like COE, which was considered part of SACS before they broke away. "Operating as a unit of SACS, COEI provided accreditation services to postsecondary occupational education institutions located, with a few special exceptions, in the SACS region." From a different part of their site, "The Council on Occupational Education accredits post-secondary occupational institutions that offer certificate, diploma, or applied associate degree programs." People went to the school thinking cool, regionally accredited under SACS, but it wasn't the case. This situation is different in that the arm that is accredited is not conferring degrees but for most people the lines are blurred just enough to draw in business.
     
  13. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    This is ancient history, but as far as I can tell, the situation was exactly the same.

    Between 1971 and 1995, SACS had a division called the "Commission on Occupational Education Institutions" (COEI). And COEI had exactly the same scope as other RA "career school" divisions -- they only accredited non-degree-granting post-secondary programs.

    Eventually, technical/vocational schools started offering associate's degrees. COEI wanted to offer accreditation to such programs, but could not do so, because SACS limited them to non-degree programs. In 1995, COEI was spun off as an independent agency, which became the "Council on Occupational Education" (COE). COE was recognized as a national accreditation agency by the US Dept. of Education, and still is today. COE is authorized to accredit non-degree programs and "applied associate degree programs".

    If you went to a COEI school with regional accreditation under SACS, it was not a degree-granting institution. It's true that COE today can accredit associate's degree programs, but COE didn't have that power until 1995, when it split away from SACS.

    And that's why the poster in the other thread is having so much trouble transferring credits from a COEI school. Yes, the school was accredited by COEI, and yes, COEI was part of SACS -- but COEI schools were not colleges, not universities, and did not grant degrees. And it seems reasonable to assume that people who went to the school were aware of this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2012
  14. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    Reasonable and what actually happened isn't the case for at least 02 members on this board in the last week. Of course it is anecdotal but it does happen that there was some mis-match of communication and expectations. Maybe not on the degree granting part but on the value of the credits outside of the institution, when you tie any RA name to it.
     
  15. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I'm sorry if that is the case, and obviously there is no way today to go back in time to see whether the student, the school, or the accreditor is responsible for the misunderstanding. However, we can look at what is happening today. And I don't think that the RA agencies are doing anything misleading or irresponsible today.

    Let's get back to Penn Foster Career School, which is the subject of this thread:

    - Penn Foster Career School does not claim to be a college or university.
    - Penn Foster Career School does not offer degrees.
    - Penn Foster Career School does claim to have regional accreditation -- but it is the same RA that high schools have, not the RA that colleges have.

    Given these facts, does it make sense to assume that PFCS training in pet grooming, small engine repair, or plumbing will transfer into a college degree program? And if a student does make this assumption, is the school or the accreditor really at fault?

    There are certainly cases where schools present misleading information about the transferability of their credits. But I don't think is one of them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2012
  16. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    My Penn Foster courses all transferred to Excelsior College, FWIW. They were all degree courses.
     
  17. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    Doesn't matter in this situation but either they accepted the NA credits or they were ACE approved courses. Either way that is Penn Foster College, not Penn Foster Career School, even though they are both Penn Foster and you can move smoothly within every entity from their website, another area where the lines blur.
     
  18. RugbyMan187

    RugbyMan187 New Member

    I got my CJ associates degree from PFC accepted as a block into Bellevue University. Yey! :]

    I am not planning on listing the CJ degree from PFC on my resume though... just the bachelors from Bellevue University.
     
  19. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    It's not as difficult as you're making it out to be. My courses were ACE reviewed. Penn Foster College (with the degree programs and courses) is NA. Their high school and career schools are regionally accredited. Career school courses are not degree track courses, and will not transfer to a college degree program anywhere, whether NA or RA. They are basically vocational/technical courses.
     
  20. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    What is not as difficult as I made it out to be? Obviously you understand it. I have taken courses at Penn Foster and had them transferred as well, I understand it. For the average consumer, and what has even happened to people on this board, it isn't that simple.

    Also, either you got confused or just added information to the thread but you also made it just as confusing. This thread is about Penn Foster Career School. You posted simply "Penn Foster" and then went on to talk about transfer and degree courses......
     

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