Do I sound like I am threatening

First off let me explain. I was convicted of a felony crime, a serious crime. Attempted murder of a police office in 1993. I am a former drug addict. I work in adult education and intend to work with other ex-felons and drug addicts. I applied to a University's Ed.S. program and told my adviser I was an ex-felon that adviser said you do not have to pass a background check because you are not intending to enroll into a teacher licensure program, or student teaching and we do not require you to pass the background check.

Two years later I applied for graduation, which was processed last month. Now the University's School of Education passed a new policy ALL candidates have to pass a background check to enroll into Fall 2012 education courses. This is very unfair and my friend who is a lawyer told me to document all my contacts with the university because i may have to seek legal action.

I emailed the department I keep getting referred to (no response) and told them I would be willing to accept a Certificate of Advanced Studies or whatever because EDUC doctoral level coursework just has a hard time transferring and if it did only 0-9 credits would be allowed.

Here is my conversation with ? a fellow student working in the call center? Who knows.

You are now chatting with Anneke
Anneke: Hello My name deleted, Thank you for chatting with me today.

Anneke: Can you please verify your date of birth?

My name deleted: I am unclear as to the requirements for the SOE background check it is my understanding I can enroll into certain Educ course with just applying for a background check. I do to start EDUC 718 next week and want to graduate this Oct however, I cannot pass the background check and notified my adviser two years ago in that there was no requirement for candidates that did not seek licence or enrolled in practicum/internships/student teaching. This has been a very bad and unfair situation for me in that at the end my program being told I cannot graduate (because I cannot enroll for my last classes. Help! Do I apply for BG check and then be allowed to enroll into EDUC 740, 742 and 747? I have attempted to get answers but no one replies

My name deleted: "I am due to start...."

My name deleted My date deleted

Anneke: Yes, background check clearance is required for the following courses: - EDUC 718/798, 970, 989, 990 (EDS/EDD)
Anneke: Receipt of a background check is required for All other EDSP/EDUC courses (including intensives

My name deleted: I am enrolled into EDUC 718 already so can I register for the other three classes Fall 2012. How can I be told (when I applied for the Ed.S. program and Gate 2 that I did not have to submit a BG check? Is not that resulting in my spend 20K dollars and 2 years for nothing? How can a rule be placed on me after the fact?

My name deleted: What is the difference between "Receipt" and clearance?

My name deleted: I appreciate your assistance in this

Anneke: Receipt indicates that you have ordered the background check and clearance indicates the check has been completed. Unfortunately, as to your overall concerns regarding the process and your specific situation, you will need to contact deleted if you have not already done so

My name deleted: I did last week and called them twice. Time is important because I have another class beginning in one week and what reason would I spend 1500.00 on a class i cannot use?

My name deleted: No one responds.

Anneke: Ok, you have not received a response at all?

My name deleted: No I have not. I emailed a Dr. Name deleted (vice pres) earlier today and have not heard back yet

Anneke: I am afraid that they are not currently available to speak with in the office.

However, I will follow up on this personally tomorrow and contact you via email with what I am able to determine. Is there anything else I can help you with today?

My name deleted: Yes I do appreciate your help. Can I please have a copy of this contact because I was advised by a lawyer to attempt to resolve this without any litigation but he did tell me to document my interaction with name deleted. I am loosing a lot of money and time unfairly.

Anneke: You will be prompted to request a copy of the transcript of this conversation upon conclusion of the chat.

My name deleted: By the way I work in adult education with other ex-felons

Anneke: Please understand that name deleted University takes threats of legal action very seriously. Statements such as those you have made thus far may cause you to to lose verbal privileges with the University.

My name deleted: There is a need for people like me for programs that attempt to rehabilitate

Anneke: Is there anything else I can help you with today?

My name deleted: There is no verbal threat I was explaining that legal advice told me to document my contact with deleted University how is that a threat?

Anneke: Such statements may be considered a threat sir which is why I am warning you. I will be following up on your situation tomorrow. Do you have any other questions for me today sir?

My name deleted: No I do not thank you.

Anneke: Thanks for chatting with me - Have a great day
Chat session has ended.

Am I not allowed to seek answers before my next class begins in seven days. The University had our professors contact us about this new policy last Thursday I get an email telling me "Candidate new policy for everyone in SOE cannot enroll into future classes without background checks"

Nice two years after being told it is ok your not required to submit a BG check and I set out on this long and expensive journey only to have this take place. Certainly very unfair and damaging to me.

Any response is appreciated.

 

I have not spoken with anyone at the university prior to this conversation

P.S. I have not spoken with anyone at the university prior to this conversation and my prior emails where only asking clarification and offering to take a certificate so there has been no threats to anyone This is the first time I mention anything about litigation. I might have to seek action to have someone who is fair rule on this. Money and time is involved. How can we be protected (our investment) if we are told one thing and then a new policy is enacted that is very harmful to the student. If this was the policy when I applied I would have applied else where there are programs especially adult education and other Ed.S./Ed.D areas that do not require BG checks.

 

I know that any time you mention legal action of any kind, people freak out. It would have probably been better not to mention that because their stance changes considerably when there is any mention of legal counsel. All of a sudden, they are afraid to talk to you because they may personally be drawn into a legal battle. You may have shown your hand too soon and could possibly now have no other choice but to take legal action. This is all just my opinion, but I have seen things change drastically any time legal action is mentioned in other circumstances.

 

Yeah it is a veiled threat in my opinion.

 

While it is not a threat, I do think people hear it as, "I got a lawyer and I will sue your ass". I know someone that was dealing with a possible foreclosure and they mentioned that they may get the advice of a lawyer. All of a sudden they we put on the "do not talk to" list. I would just follow through because the rule change in a crock especially when you were up-front with them. I say fight it to the end and win.

 

No threat

It is not a threat, I am requesting the transcript of the conversation and gave the reason why. Economic damages will take place if I am dismissed. Also time is crucial because of the class beginning in one week which will result in more damages. Of course I will seek litigation in a matter such as this. Who would not? Thanks for your responses.

 

First off, I'd like to commend you for being forthcoming (as forthcoming as you can be on the internet) in your explanation of your former life. And I do stress former life. You have done a complete 180 degrees from where you were approximately 20 yrs. ago. I commend you for that.

Your latest issue with this university has shown how the past can rear its ugly head. You were blindsided certainly. Was this a foreseeable possibility? Maybe. Could they have grandfathered you in? Certainly. But we're a country of second chances. We root for people that turn their lives around. That is the America I cherish. You deserve the opportunity to finish your degree. Yours is an inspiring story and it should not end here. This is a fight you must fight.

Go get 'em.

 

I agree, at what point do we as a society allow people to move on from their past mistakes?

 

Thanks

I do not believe serious ex-felons, such as myself, should ever be allowed to get a teaching licence. But we should be allowed to earn education. There is a place for us such as facilitators for cognitive restructuring program, drug treatment facility education directors, advisers at community colleges, and educational consulting for adult education programs that many times will have a high ex-felon, homeless, and drug addicted clients. I volunteer for three entities : Christian University, a homeless shelter, and a drug treatment facility. I save each a lot of money. Again, I should never be allowed a teaching licence, but I should be allowed to earn the Ed.S. (non-licensed) tract. Thanks for your responses and support.

 

A bit off topic

This does indirectly relate to distance education and to education such as my current situation, I was shocked to find out there is state governments and others that advocate for ex-felons perhaps the ones who have many years of pro-social behavior. Security of the public has priority and that is why we (prior violent crime convictions) should never be allowed to work in certain areas i.e., police, public schools, nursing, and so forth.

Here is an article that shocked me.

Ex-Felons Get Second Chance at Jobs - The Bay Citizen

 

Over here, we have statutes that limit the life of a convictions unless you are convicted again. After five years without further offending, you are entitled to state that you have no previous convictions unless for specialised occupations. i guess one would be teaching children, but this would not be applicable for one teaching adults. I suspect that there must a US equivalency of that legislation. Here is some examples. One from here and one from the UK;
www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/C/CriminLwRehA86.pdf · PDF file

Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Talk to your lawyer to see if there is an equivalent as this might be useful in being with the university.

 

Just tossing my $.02 in there, many organizations have policies around legal action, once a threat implied or otherwise of legal action is made the rules change. For example my company will route all future communication through the legal department (which is why they will only communicate in writing) and I believe the university is doing the same thing to you. Your only recourse at this time is...you have a lawyer, use him and sue the school.

In my opinion you played your hand too soon. Never display guns, knives or lawyers until you intend to use them in a fight.

Lastly, I am glad to hear of what you are doing. The United States is deeply flawed in how we deal with ex-convicts, basically creating a sub-class of citizen in every way with little chance to ever economically recover from a conviction (or sometimes a charge) even after their debt to society (a term I hate BTW) is paid. This is why I believe we have so many life long criminals and why our crime rates remain high. Add to the mix the 3 strikes law and you have a brew for generations of violence. I'm a former cop and I believe the system is so broken that I could never return to the profession as I think the CJ system we have now ruins more lives and familys than it preserves. That's my opinion of course...

 

Thanks

Yes it is almost an insurmountable mountain to climb once you are released back into society. Hard to find decent apartments, well no need to go in to details. There really is no easy solutions to this problem due to fact that society does have to have security measures in place. However, there is also a point when it becomes a no win situation in that many felons have something to contribute to society in general, and to the communities we live.

Many schools will deny, those with violent criminal convictions, admission to on campus programs. Distance education is a solution.

One thing I am happy for is that none of the police officers (5) that I shot at was actually hit. Not just because I would of have served many more years in prison but because they all went back to work soon after the incident. And back home to their families. That really is the most important issue for me. Again, thank you all for the responses.

 

Adjunct, I do not have any advice for you but I would like to comment.

I am an ex-felon and ex-addict as well. I have been clean since June 1993, so it appears that our trouble was close to the same time. Since then I have worked in all types of programs and ministries. A second chance at life after prison is a beautiful thing. I think that more good people who have been set free from addiction should come forward. It brings about hope for those who have been criminals, those who have been victims and everyone else that chooses to listen. Anyway, thanks for sharing and God bless.

 

Maybe that's so, maybe not. But it is sad because people change. If you are never allowed to do certain things then they are saying that you will never actually change.

 

I second this. Doesn't really matter who you are or how big/small the issue is most people just seem to freak out. With that said...job well done. Personally I think it's great that you’re making your stand. If you have all your correspondence from beginning to end of this program then you’re in a better position than most people

 

Another basis to disagree - Catalog?

A generally accepted principle in higher education is that college catalogs are contracts with students. Students that enter a school under one catalog are allowed to follow its provisions until they graduate.

Might you argue that the catalog you entered under does not have a policy on background checks - and that they can't change the rules of the road on you?

Just a thought.....

 

That would involve moving from a punitive use of force system to a protective use of force system. We have trained ourselves in "deserve" language. Someone did something so they "deserve" to be treated a certain way. Instead of using the system effectively, to rehabilitate those that have wronged their community and allow them to come back in to society as contributors we think locking them away without resources and punishing them helps us and makes us feel better. When Americans hear that a country like Norway is rehabilitating offenders we think they are stupid and weak even though repeat offenders are few and far between. Somehow the system we have, capital punishment, life-long drug convictions, treating them like crap and giving them what they "deserve" both while in prison and when they get out makes us feel better, or rather we think it does.

 

Like that's going to work. All the school has to do is keep revising its website and the student has no way to prove what the website said back when he/she first started the program.

 

In the context of your original posting it doesn't sound threatening to me but I can understand how someone might react defensively whenever they're told that the other party is going to "lawyer up." To me your request seems reasonable and I hope you succeed.