Threat of the week from... Kay Larson, Ph.D, unaccredited Clayton College grad

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Chip, Jun 2, 2012.

Loading...
  1. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Well, it's time again for another installment of the threat of the week.

    This time, the threat actually comes from a John W. Dozier, an "Internet attorney" practicing out of Virginia, which I find interesting, given that the person he's speaking on behalf of actually lives in California.

    He's writing about a thread on Kay Larson, self-styled nutritionist, author, and (apparently) holder of unaccredited masters and doctoral degrees from the unwonderful Clayton College of Natural Health.

    Mr. Dozier goes through the standard stuff, claiming that the thread "suggests that [Kay Larson, Ph.D] is a liar, fraud, and scam artist" when, in fact, I can't find any part of the thread that says those things.

    He does say that we claim she has fake credentials. Of course, it wasn't degreeinfo that made that claim, but one of our users... and additionally, to the extent that a Ph.D from Clayton College of Natural Health is from an unaccredited (and for many years, unlicensed) school, and therefore, its degrees aren't recognized by any licensure boards, and are illegal to use in at least two states, one could certainly argue that the degrees are less than credible. So I have a hard time seeing where there's any knowing falsity, and truth is an absolute defense to defamation and libel, so we're on pretty firm ground.

    The threat is exceptionally carefully worded; the attorney basically knows he has no real leg to stand on, and makes the incredibly large stretch in claiming that by not removing the thread, we're violating our own Terms of Service, and therefore "in violation of numerous consumer protection laws for providing terms of service guarantees, but not following them." I'd love to see some case law precedent on that, and even moreso, I'd like to see a case where some attorney general actually spent money going after something as frivolous as a TOS violation.

    The best part is, one of his primary claims is that we're improperly hosting a copyrighted image belonging to Ms. Larson, but apparently Mr. Dozier, crack Internet attorney, doesn't understand how hotlinking works; the image isn't hosted on our server at all (nor was it posted by anyone associated with Degreeinfo), so a DMCA request (which he's threatened) would be ineffective.

    Further, this exceptional internet attorney apparently also apparently doesn't understand how message boards work, and accuses us of posting the phrase "scam artist" across the photograph. But we didn't post the photo, we didn't alter it, we don't know where it came from, nor do we have anything to do with it; it's a link to a photo hosted somewhere else, probably by the original poster of that particular message.

    So, as with all threats, we are posting the information here for our members to see and comment on.

    The original threat, for anyone interested, can be viewed here:

    Page 1
    Page 2

    Oh and... one other interesting thing: The thread was dormant, and hadn't had any new posts since March... then, in mid-May, somebody who had never posted before suddenly registered and posted asking for facts (presumably to defend Ms. Larson.) Now... I'm not saying Ms. Larson herself posted, but it does seem a little suspicious that thsi person registered, posted on this thread, and then was never heard from again... and then, about a month later, a threat shows up. Interesting.
     
  2. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Did this come to you via email? If so, I doubt that it is a legitimate legal notice. I've only taken a couple of law classes, but I'm pretty sure that no legitimate legal action would be initiated via email.


    EDIT: I looked it up and I am wrong. In some circumstances, legal notice via email can be binding.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2012
  3. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    Wrong. He is an "internet attorney" so that is how he rolls.
     
  4. NorCal

    NorCal Active Member

    :soapbox: It's ridiculous! It's preposterous! It's ludicrous! By god, it's impetuous!"








    Little Van Wilder reference for the kids . . . . :icon16:
     
  5. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Well, I've got half a mind to call Gretta Van Sustersomething, or Judge Judy or somebody...:wink1:
     
  6. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    You know what, I looked it up and you are right. In some circumstances, legal notice via email can be binding. I stand corrected.
     
  7. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    These alternative medicine people have no credibility in my book. Eat a banana to cure cancer. Sure. That'll work.
     
  8. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    It's actually great advice for preventing cancer, but I don't suppose eating a single banana is a cure for anything other than my voracious sweet tooth.

    Some particularly folksy folks use the term "ancient Chinese" to lend credibility to their unscientific claims, apparently forgetting or ignoring that the life expectancy of the ancient Chinese was less than 40.
     
  9. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    If I am right, it is just by chance. I thought you were right and I was just playing around.
     
  10. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    You are an accidental genus!
     
  11. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    The best advice I could offer to Dr. Larson is this news from the relevant press release, that, ten days ago, the class action law suit against Clayton was resolved in favor of the plaintiffs, and the court awarded Clayton graduates the sum of $2.31 million, of which $700,000+ goes to the lawyers and $1,552,136 to Clayton alumni. If she simply turns in her Clayton degree and joins the class, she is entitled to her share of the $1.5 million. (Incidentally, of the sum, $2.3 million came from Clayton's insurer and $10,000 from Lloyd Clayton himself.)

    "On May 25, 2012, United States Magistrate Judge Harwell G. Davis, III issued a final order granting final approval to the settlement reached in Goldberg v. Clayton College of Natural Health, Inc., Case No. 2:10-cv-02990-HGD. Judge Davis ruled that the settlement is fair, adequate and reasonable. The settlement creates a $2.31 million Settlement Fund and provides for claimants to receive tuition discounts and credit transfer opportunities at two other natural health schools.

    Final court order (43 pages): http://ccnhlawsuit.com/2012-05-25-Final-Order.pdf
    Notice sent to more than 5,000 members of the class (8 pages) here: http://ccnhlawsuit.com/CCNH-Class-Notice.pdf

    And if you want to get a taste of why lawyers earn the big bucks, here is the wording in the agreed-upon settlement that sets founder Lloyd Clayton forever free:

    Plaintiffs (including Class Members and their assigns, successors, heirs or agents) shall be forever barred from instituting, maintaining or prosecuting against defendant [Lloyd Clayton][and others], its or their insurers, and attorneys, any such claim, demand, action, cause of action or liability arising under, related to, or authorized by federal or state statutory, regulatory, or common law including, but not limited to, breach of contract, breach of fiduciary duty, conversion, bailment, negligence, unjust enrichment/breach of quasi-contract, equitable estoppel, and/or fraud, suppression, misrepresentation or deceit, which have been asserted, or could have been asserted in this action."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2012
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    As a general statement, not pointing out anyone specifically and certainly not Dr. Kay Larsen in particular, I'm amused by the following observation. People with bogus academic credentials earned at places that require more work than your average diploma mill (like Kennedy-Western AKA Warren National University) are generally the most amusing of all academic frauds. At the same time they also get more sympathy from me, afterall they have generally paid more and worked much harder for their silly diploma than most diploma mill customers.

    As a second general statement, following John Bear's advice is always a wise choice. I think that John makes a most excellent suggestion. I hope that the good doctor Kay follows it.
     
  13. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    I will assume you meant genius and take it as a compliment! :)
     
  14. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    No, I think he's saying that you're a mutant.:saevilw:
     
  15. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    It could have went either way....
     
  16. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    I'm glad Lloyd Clayton paid $10,000, but honestly, that's a joke. He probably fleeced people for tens or hundreds of millions over the years.

    I remember this smug picture of him that ran in full-page ads in the various nutrition rags (Vegetarian Times, Alternative Health, etc) promoting Clayton College of Natural Health, with a caption below his picture that said something like "Lloyd Clayton. Innovator. Educator. Philanthropist."

    I think "Fraud. Rip-off artist. Piece of shit." would have been a more appropriate caption.

    Also, for those not in the know, Clayton was responsible not just for the awful Clayton College but also for American Institute of Computer Science, an unwonderful CS school, which through a huge mistake by DETC was granted accreditation even after advertising fraudulent accreditation up to the day it became DETC accreditation, and Chadwick University, another unwonderful that offered degrees in exchange for token amounts of work like Clayton's other schools.

    I'm sure the guy is happily retired and comfortable living on all the money he ripped off from the tens of thousands of people he fleeced over the years.
     
  17. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    ..if you believe that allopathic medicine has all the answers, you're sadly mistaken. It is a fact that the vast majority of allopathic physicians merely treat the visible symptoms, but rarely do they find the actual causation. While I agree that allopathic medicine has its place (particularly emergency medicine), there are more ways to treat disease aside from enriching pharmaceutical companies by way of using their synthetic drugs (consult a pharmacy guide sometime... the known side effects of most meds are downright frightful, let alone the ones they aren't aware of).. but I digress from the original post...
     
  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    My blood pressure would have killed me before long had I now lowered it dramatically. I have a good diet and I exercise, I just drew the short straw genetically. Thanks to evidence-based medicine, and two pharmaceuticals that came from it, I'm now perfectly fine and with zero side effects. I agree that those who practice evidence-based medicine may not know everything, but they're definitely the right people with whom to start.
     
  19. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Well here's another interesting tidbit I just happened to notice:

    In the letter from the attorney, he describes his client (Ms. Larson) as a "respected author." That would certainly imply to me someone who is a published author (writer). But Ms Larson, in one of her lovely posts on allexperts.com, says:

    So I guess "respected author" and "published writer" are completely different. :)

    btw, the Lulu book is on the subject of "how to make money as a health consultant" or some such. 'Nuff said.
     

Share This Page