DETC says ''Do not take NO for an answer''!

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by saharapost, Jun 1, 2012.

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  1. saharapost

    saharapost Member

    I do not know if someone has posted this link before. However, I bumped on it today while studying Ashworth College programmes. It talks about the problems students may encounter when they are trying to transfer or further their education having acquired a nationally accredited degree or education from a DETC accredited institution. It also spells out the ways to tackle this problems. In my opinion, this is cool and helpful. What do you think? Please have a look here http://www.detc.org/downloads/publications/Don%27t%20Take%20No%20for%20an%20Answer.pdf
     
  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Isn't that the Rapist's Creed?

    Anyway, I read that a while back. It could be helpful, but at the end of the day if a school won't take a student's credits the student just has to either move on to another school or enroll and begin at the start. That said, I've read a number of times over the years where a student raised enough hell and got the credits accepted, and then got in and aced the program, not that it surprises me.
     
  3. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Well, good for DETC, to encourage this.

    This is why I put a "Bending the Rules" chapter in my book, which is another way of saying, "Don't take no..." I have barrels full of stories. The regular poster here who exceeded his 7-year time limit for his doctoral program because of military obligations, and was told, "No,you can't continue." The president died. The new president said, "Yes." The eldest daughter of our family who wanted to transfer from Evergreen State to Berkeley and was told "No, you didn't take enough science and math in high school." The high school principal rewrote her transcript translating silly course names like "Understanding the World We Live In" to "Modern Physics." Berkeley said yes . . . a good decision, since she graduated Phi Beta Kappa three years later. Etc. etc. etc.
     
  4. skidadl

    skidadl Member

    This method absolutely helped me get accepted into an AASCB program.
     
  5. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I guess that would make this the Rapist's Anthem You Can't Take No for an Answer - The Muppets Take Manhattan - YouTube

    At least DETC is forthcoming about the issue of transfer. A while back, Chip mentioned that DETC has improved in credibility and viability so greatly that he changed his personal stance on the matter- having once believed DETC accredited degrees to be most often a poor investment. Maybe even bigger improvements are yet to come.
     
  6. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    WOW! Nice job! Congratulations! How is the program so far?
     
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I am not a huge fan of DETC schools but neither am I a basher. It's nice to get some tips on facilitating the transfer of credits but if I were in that position I would be far happier if the DETC school(s) would solve the problem at the front end by making their credits more universally acceptable rather than shifting the burden onto the student by handing out sales lessons. If nothing else, it suggests the idea that if credits are not accepted it's because the student didn't adequately "sell" them. We all know that 's not the real reason. I think it would be great if we get to the day when DETC credits sell themselves. It seems we're not there yet.
     
  8. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I expect it. The DETC is always doing something to improve, but you know there are some people who just refuse to acknowledge it no matter what, and personally I find it rather rich...
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I absolutely subscribe to the negotiation/asking/begging/pleading/demanding/whatever approach when necessary. Here's an example:

    In 1986, I enrolled in Union's Ph.D. program. I'd been a fan of John Bear's books for 6 years by then, and had been researching DL schools (especially unaccredited ones) for about 8 years. I knew I wanted to do a Ph.D. in this field, so I went to Union so I could create it. As it was in those days, Union learners assembled their doctoral committees, made up of 2 faculty members from Union, 2 adjuncts from outside the school, and 2 peers (current learners or recent graduates). I didn't know John at the time, but I wrote him anyway, saying that I understood if he couldn't take this on, and perhaps he could recommend someone. Well, he graciously wrote back, saying that no one ever asked him to do this in all the years he'd been writing about DL and yes, he'd be glad to do it. He also recommended Dick Crews, MD, the president and part-owner of Columbia Pacific University, a robust-but-unaccredited school in California. I got both of them! After assembling the rest of my committee, I set off to design and then conduct my degree program.

    My degree program was interrupted several times because of military requirements. In 1994, as I prepared my first dissertation, I had to drop my program due to family circumstances. By the time I could work it again, my program seemed long gone. I considered (briefly) a dissertation-only Ph.D. from a British University, then got involved what would become--and quickly disintegrate--MIGS. Then John asked whether or not he could contact Union on my behalf. Union's president was overwhelmingly welcoming, saying they'd be glad to waive the time-in-program requirement and get me back in the program. I had to do three semesters (1 year) and a whole new dissertation, but I was able to finish.

    Here's another one. I started my MBA at Chapman University in 1981. But before I could finish, work got in the way. I transferred to National University and they accepted my Chapman credits. But I had thus maxed out the transfer credit limit. Well, before I could finish my MBA, I got recalled to active duty and sent to Officer Training School. Subsequently, I was assigned to a base in California, and was able to continue my MBA. However, I received short-notice orders to a base in Texas before I'd finished the MBA. At the time, National offered an MA in Business that required 12 courses and an MBA that required 15. The core requirements were the same, but the MBA required 3 more courses. I petitioned the school to waive the transfer credit limit to allow me to attend another school and finish the National MBA. At first they said no, but they'd approve me to transfer in one extra class to finish the MA. Well, if you remember the way things were in the early 1980's, the MBA was king and any other business-related degree was considered second-best. So I appealed the decision, citing my military obligations and my interest in the field of nontraditional education, suggesting I might be someone they wanted as an MBA grad. Boom. They approved the waiver to the transfer credit limit. I took 4 courses at Webster U. and graduated from National with the MBA.

    Bottom line: don't be afraid to ask. Negotiate. Present the value proposition. Don't be afraid to walk away. But don't be afraid to buck it up the chain to get a different answer. This advice is really appropriate at the graduate level. You'd be surprised how far schools will go to support their students (or, even, applicants) and their pursuit of degrees.

    Go for it.
     
  10. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I just see the document as a response to students who have had trouble getting their DETC credits accepted. This of course is not limited to the DETC as this can be a roadblock with credits from any NA school, and to a far lesser extent some RA schools as well. But as NA students continue to fight it and then get into the RA program and kick its ass, the issue will continue to lessen.
     
  11. NorCal

    NorCal Active Member

    There are two sides to this situation. One could commend DETC for laying it out there and helping their students transfer. On the other hand, they are passing the burden to the student. However, I think DL students regardless of accreditation have always had to fight and prove themselves. I know I was very apprehensive about going to school online. But now that I've done it, I could never go back to sitting in a traditional classroom.
     
  12. skidadl

    skidadl Member

    I start in the fall. If I start, that is. I really want to do the program but after trying and failing to utilize the Academic Common Market's tuition program through the SREB I am unsure.

    It will cost me 20k vs. 8k. I am really weighing my options right now. Honestly, it's everything I am looking for in a program.
     
  13. saharapost

    saharapost Member

    While I agree with some of the comments by fellow DItes that DETC should do the job of selling itself rather than making the student a sales man, I would like to add that we should praise DETC for coming up with some solution at least. I think there must be something they are doing to put an end to the problems students face when it comes to DETC degrees...

    However, sometimes it is not about RA or NA. No matter who accredits a school- be it the president of the US, the queen of England or a Supreme Court's Judge- some degrees would always be turned down. I have seen instances (many times) when degrees from accredited schools which are popular worldwide are turned down by some other schools. I will give an example- back in my home country, before arriving in Europe, I was studying at one of the best universities. It was called Africa's most beautiful campus. I don't know how true the claim that Obafemi Awolowo University is Africa's most beautiful... what I know is that, to practice Law in Nigeria, av got to attend and graduate from not just any university but one that is not distance learning. Now, I am continuing my Law programme at the University of London through the International Programmes and I know that my home country will NEVER accept my degree as qualifying enough to practice law. Of course my degree would be recognised as a degree by my country- no doubt about that. Sometimes, the problem is not just about accreditation... No matter who accredits a distance learning university, some countries, universities, employers would always say NO.
     
  14. Petedude

    Petedude New Member

    I'm not sure it's praiseworthy per se, but it's a relief DETC said it. I can imagine a lot of people would not have arrived at the same conclusions without being prompted.
     
  15. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

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