Would you agree that a "degree mill" is not the same as a "crap school"?

Diploma mills don't have teachers, they have sales representatives. I've seen the term "diploma mill" and "degree mill" used A LOT here, and the reality is that an actual diploma mill does not have ANY teachers , administration, classes, grades, accreditation, NOTHING. It is a COMPANY that sells FAKE degrees that are completely worthless. The only staff are the sales reps. Thats a diploma mill. You cannot teach at one, take classes at one, do any work at one, earn any grades at one. Its impossible.

A crap school is something else entirely. They do crap work, have crap instructors and staff and customer service, they have crap for a reputation, they have no ethical or academic standards by which they follow, they *generally* have no acceptable accreditation (not saying that all unaccredited schools are crap, nor am I saying all crap schools are unaccredited. Ashford is the perfect example of this), etc.

There IS a difference. I know some may not really think so, but in reality, crap schools and diploma mills are not interchangeable, are not 1 and the same, and are actually quite different.

 

I'll agree. I've worked for a crap school with some sort of career accreditation and I've seen mills that just take money for credentials.

 

I think we can agree on that.

 

Eloquently spoken, MC.

 

Who's studying for their GMAT?

 

I love your analogies, but they are totally true. :yumyum:

 

I agree with everyone in this forum. I think one of the problems is that the general public tends to just "lump" all these schools together and classify them as diploma mills. However, as the public becomes more aware of this then perhaps they'll be more educated on the differences.

 

The real problems:

1. Admissions are allowed to be selective.
2. Schools are so easily founded.

Force the Ivies to accept anyone who can or is willing to pay and put a cap on tuition such that they have to admit students or increase research funding. If people can't hack it, they will not graduate. If researchers can't get funding the school gets new academics.

Force other schools to run through an academic ringer to get accredited and don't allow them to open until they meet requirements (remove the graduated class requirement and force a standard on the faculty hiring/tenure/curriculum).

If there's no opportunity/market for the crap schools, there will cease to be crap schools. While it stands to reason that mills may open to fill the void, it's easy in the above sort of environment to create the kind of pressure to close them.

 

Steve Levicoff used to try to class the outright or basically outright frauds as diploma mills, and the substandard but at least minimally… something-there schools as degree mills.

…At least I think this was his distinction. It just might have been the other way around, perhaps why this distinction didn't really catch on.

Here's an old thread from Rich Douglas on usage.

 

I disagree. Selectivity of admissions is a function of demand. When a limited number of spots is available, then the school simply cannot admit everyone, and selectivity is a result. Furthermore, some standards would be necessary, such as a HS diploma or GED.

I would argue that the problems are many: credentialism (which encourages getting the degree rather than the education), grade inflation, degree inflation, lack of rigor, etc.

 

Disagree as you will. None of the problems you present emerge in the model I present.

 

I agree, his opinion carries no weight with me.

 

I think they're actually useful distinctions, even if it's just among those of us who are knowledgeable about DL; there is a definite difference between a place that will mail you a diploma for a check or credit card transaction, versus a place that somewhat goes through the motions and requires substandard or minimal work in exchange for the degree.

IMO, the second category (degree mill) is the most dangerous, as they are the ones who damage the reputation of DL. Anyone with half a brain knows that buying a diploma for no work is a total scam, but requiring *some* work implies that all DL programs are substandard.

 

The second category wouldnt be a degree mill. It would be a crap school.

 

You're a n00b who just got here last month and hasn't even completed a degree yet.....you're in absolutely no position to dictate or define how less-then-wonderful schools are labeled.

 

Play nice. uppy_dog_eyes: