So what's wrong with an unaccredited degree?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by David Appleyard, Mar 22, 2002.

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  1. David Appleyard

    David Appleyard New Member

    I have read many of the forum topics relating to RA, DETC, unaccredited accrediting bodies and purely unaccredited colleges/universities. I still find it interesting to see that many people who post here are either "for" or "against" the unaccredited schools for their own reasons.

    I still would like to know: "What's wrong with an unaccredited degree?"

    I am a normal guy, self-taught, with an IQ around 160. I am a high school graduate, with no undergraduate degree, yet have owned and successfully operated (profited from) a number of companies. My first company was a commercial construction company which I sold in 1990 for a profit of seven figures. In 1991, I went into the securities business (stock brokerage) and after several years of working with a major wirehouse, became independent. I recruited and built the firm to a work force of nearly 100 brokers in a four year period. Again, selling the business (2000) for a seven figure profit. In 2001, I joined another brokerage and now head their managed money department.

    Here's my point: I have more business-related experience than any MBA, yet I have no short-term avenue to transform that knowledge into a legitimate degree. I suppose I could CLEP or Dantes myself to death, test-out most of my classes, obtain half my credits through experiential learning at a "credit bank", but I'd still have 8 months to a year before I'd earn my BS. Add another 18 months for an MBA and I'd prove to the world that I know what I know now.

    Any thoughts or comments?

    David
     
  2. Bill Highsmith

    Bill Highsmith New Member

    How does a sincere but unaccredited degree solve your problem? They require work or testing, too.

    If on the other hand you are talking about a degree that is simply purchased (perhaps with a show of a resume), what will that "prove to the world?" The schools who do that generally don't care if the resume is for you or for your poodle.

    Twenty-four months will pass whether you get a legitimate degree or not.
     
  3. Why do you want a degree? It sounds as though you don't want additional education and you don't need the credential professionally. Most of the discussion about accreditation comes down to the utility of the degree. So the right choice depends on your objectives in pursuing the degree.
     
  4. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    My grandfather had a similar story. As an eighth-grade graduate who never received an undergraduate degree or a MBA, he was, nonetheless, a savvy businessman who made millions. These kinds of people find their fame and fortunate without all the educational degrees or titles.

    However, it is ironic that this man, who became a success with just an eighth-grade education, pushed all of his children to get an education (RA). His son was a West Pointer and his daughter was a school principal with a masters degree.

    This uneducated man apparently saw great value and merit in the educational system. I find that to be so ironic.
     
  5. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    You are correct; earning a legitimate accredited degree only serves to prove to the world what you know (you do, however, run the risk of actually learning something). On the other hand, purchasing a millploma, will prove to the world that you are, at best, an extremely poor decision maker, if not outright sleazy and dishonest. Tough choice, huh?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2002
  6. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Pragmatically, a non-accredited degree usually falls short on utility, lacking acceptance by employers and respect from colleagues. If you ever become controversial for any reason, your enemies might use the degree to discredit you.

    Socially, it will only advance you among that lay population who value education but know so little about it that they don't recognize your ploy.

    Ethically, it is a matter of claiming a credential that you didn't earn. Even if you already know all of the material covered in a degree program, you will still have to demonstrate that you possess that knowledge before a university can certify that you possess it. Anything else is lying.

    Educationally, a non-accredited program may be useful if it actually teaches you something and puts you in contact with others that share your academic interests. But none of that will happen if you actively avoid doing any work.

    Psychologically, knowing that your "title" is bogus is not going to have the desired effect in raising your self-esteem. If you want a degree in order to feel better about yourself, knowing that your degree is substandard is going to leave you feeling the same way.
     
  7. Ken

    Ken member

    Linyard,

    "Bogus" is in the eye of the beholder.

    First, regional accreditation is just that... regional. The standards in one region can be different than those in another. Regional accrediation is also extremely process oriented... that is how the University of Pheonix and the Maharishi School of Management is accredited with Stanford.

    Second, there are other accreditors recognized by the US government... if it is good enough for the federal government...

    Third, there are state accreditors. Again, recognized by a state governments...

    Of course, there is no requirement to be accredited at all... it is completely voluntary. You can be completely legal without being accredited, so in a sense any legal school is completely legitimate.


    It is the ultimate of hypocrisy to berate California Coast and strut around like a Peacock with a degree from University of Phoenix.
     
  8. Bill Highsmith

    Bill Highsmith New Member

    Which doesn't answer the question.

    The scenario is, he has a lot of experience, no degree at all, wants an MBA, but doesn't want to go to class or take exams. What to do? He suggests that an unaccredited degree might be the answer.

    How does a CCU degree solve the problem? Will they send him an MBA out of sympathy or because they like is resume? I don't think so.

    The answer is that there is no solution and that there does not need to be a solution. If only he didn't mind taking exams...with all that experience, I'm sure the Herriott-Watt exams would be a breeze and no bachelor's degree is required.
     
  9. Ken

    Ken member

    Highsmith,

    Your ignorance is humorous.

    If he wants some initials, he could go and buy a degree somewhere... or suck-it up and portfolio a degree.

    As for a legitimate MBA. A legitimate MBA is an academic exercise, not something you are granted for life experience (no matter how impressive it may be).

    There are many MBA programs that grant access without an undergrad. Again, his experience would make an MBA much easier (I imagine he would sail through a corporate finance course) but I doubt he would find HW a breeze... you woefully underestimate the difficulty of the HW program.
     
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The difference between a state-approved institution like CCU and an accredited school like UoP is so patently obvious, that it requires utter ignorance--or a blatant and biased agenda--to fail to discern the difference. You choose.


    Rich Douglas, feeding the troll.
     
  11. Bill Highsmith

    Bill Highsmith New Member

    Ken,

    Your rudeness is not humorous.

    I guess I'll have to use emoticons to dumb it down for you:

    The answer is that there is no solution and that there does not need to be a solution.

    If only he didn't mind taking exams :cool: ...with all that experience, I'm sure the Herriott-Watt exams would be a breeze ;) and no bachelor's degree is required :eek: .

    I was chastizing him for his goal of wanting a degree without any work. That was clear from my first and second post. I was also giving you a shot because you decided to give another of your tired RA editorials :rolleyes: rather than answering the question that the poster asked, as always :mad:.

    It is called sarcasm :D. I have a great deal of respect for the H-W program as I've said many times. I recommended to my sister and if business courses didn't make me puke I'd take it too.
     
  12. Ken

    Ken member

    Hmmmm,

    You agree that RA standards differ.

    I guess you agree about the other accreditors.

    California state approval is a certification of educational quality by the California state government (there words)... sounds like a government accreditation to me.

    In many states accreditation is voluntary. "just because the state allows a school to operate doesn't make it legitmate"... depends what you mean by legitimate... if it is legal, isn't it legitimate.

    "There is no situation where an unaccredited degree is "completely legitimate." Except the UK, of course, where many diploma mills have operated over the years without any prevention by the government. Somerset, Knightsbridge, and many others."... that is simply incorrect. First, there are no accredited universities in the UK (not even Oxford)... accreditation is an American concept. Second, it is illegal to offer British degrees in the UK without a Charter and the British gov. has tried to enforce this. Now they don't shut-down schools offering other parchments... but they are not British degrees.

    Ken

    Just because I felt like feeding a troll tonight.
     
  13. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    LOL ;) :D

    So that's why people use emoticons....
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    In a spirit of collegiality it may be best not to use sarcasm when posting to this forum, Bill. Just because one is completing a GAAP Ph.D. doesn't give one the right to malign worthless degree programs. :D
     
  15. Frangop

    Frangop New Member

    Well, I know exactly where you're coming from.

    This is the reason why now many RA-equivalent universities (i.e. Australia's Deakin University, etc.) consider most undergraduate degrees as equivalent to approx. 7 years of relevant on-the-job experiance and allow you to by-pass the undergrad degree & jump right into a Masters degree.

    CFr
     
  16. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Not really. You may well find RA schools that won't accept certain transfer credits from other RA schools, but that is ALWAYS because they don't fit. That is, they're too old, don't satisfy the distribution requirements, go over the allowed transfer limit, etc. The sticking point is not the accreditation status of the school, but rather the status of the credits themselves.

    I have a letter in my files from Dr. Charles Cook, then (I don't know if he still is) the President of the New England Association, who stated that degrees and credits earned by one RA school are generally accepted by all other RA schools.

    I have yet to find an RA graduate school that specifies anything (degree-wise) other than a degree from another RA school.

    IOW, Harvard grad schools will and have accepted applicants with undergrad degrees from TESC, Excelsior, and yes, even......gasp......the University of Phoenix. The same application with a degree from California Coast or the rest of the CA-approved crowd would be placed in the roundfile, posthaste.


    Bruce
     
  17. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    True enough. But who finds the sort of non-accredited schools that provide no instruction and don't require that students document prior learning to be credible? And would one's employers and professional colleagues be likely to be found in that group?

    I broke down the pursuit of a degree into pragmatic, social, ethical, educational and psychological considerations. For each one I suggested that a non-accredited degree will likely fall short. Do you disagree?
     
  18. dramahead

    dramahead New Member

    Re: Re: So what's wrong with an unaccredited degree?

    Gus, you remind me of a talk show host out here in California. His name is Bernie Ward. Ultra-Liberal, apologist, and the most negative person I've ever heard on radio. As I sit back and "listen" to this forum, one thing comes to mind? Who cares what any of us has to say?:)
     
  19. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    It is in no way negitive to know the limitations of an unaccredited school and point out such limitations. It is practical.

    Over and over the question has been asked if RA programs are available for the same cost and less why would anyone choose one with no accreditation? I have yet to see one answer to that question that made sense.

    We do however continue to get apologist for the unaccredited schools who gloss over lack of utility, acceptance and prestige of these schools. If we are talking about main stream programs (Not a specialty program in Buddhism) and the work level is equal to a RA there really no reason to even consider them.
     
  20. Since this gentleman has been soooo successful in creating and selling business, money may indeed be the answer to a degree. My hat is certainly off to you with you business success. Small Business is at the heart of the American Economy and even American Express has awaken to this reality.

    Anyway back to the mission at hand $$$$$$ Pick a nice RA school with an up and coming Business program. Endow the bejesus out of their programs. I am sure your ultimate reward will be an Honarary Doctorate. They may even rename the business school after you or even the whole institution!

    Not a farfetched plan.... Old Glassboro State University in New Jersey now Rowan University..... Old no name engineering school at my almamatter Lehigh University the PC Rossin College of Engineering. Old no name school of business at my alma matter Youngstown State University, the Warren P. Williamson School of Business. I am sure the list goes on and on and on. Just think of how many names of schools in universities and endowed professorship chairs got their names. David Harvard... Yale ... etc etc.

    You don't need the degree and you have no desire to take exams, so why not do something useful for future students?

    Regards,
    Dick
     

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