WNMU MAIS program. Caveat emptor!

Now that I am free to discuss matters more openly, I can share the details of why distance learning students better think twice about WNMU.In January, I had to file a Federal lawsuit against Prof. John Gist, MFA (of the Writing department) and the Regents of the University.

In January, I had a disagreement with Prof. Gist over how he was conducting himself. I followed published university policy in the attempt to resolve the matter privately with him. Ultimately we were unable to come to a mutual understanding. I believed then -and still maintain- that actions Prof. John Gist took met the criteria of "unprofessional conduct" as presented in the Board of Regents' Policy Manual. I filed a formal grievance in accordance with university policy so that my grievance could be properly heard, and Prof. Gist could have the opportunity to refute my claims.

Within several hours of filing the grievance and copying him on it, Prof Gist retaliated against me by dropping me from the class. This was admitted by Gist in an email to me, with copies given to the VP of Academic Affairs, the VP of Student Affairs, and the Chair of the Humanities Dept (his supervisor and the person responsible for investigating my complaint). His action was in direct contravention of published WNMU policy. According to the Regent's manual, no one has the right to remove a student from a class. Only the VP of Student Affairs is given that power, and it is limited. Any disciplinary action against a student must follow a particular adjudication process. Gist circumvented this and became a law unto himself, and denied me my right to a ‘fair trial’.

I immediately protested to the Chair of the Humanities Dept, as well as the VP of Academic Affairs, and the VP of Student Affairs (this is the position legally responsible for matters of student discipline). Despite my regular protests, at no point was I ever contacted by any member of the faculty or administration regarding his retaliation against me. Worse, the administration of WNMU failed to step in and enforce their own rules. This double failure is especially sad since the only thing I ever asked of Prof Gist and the University was:

(1) An apology for the offensive acts Gist perpetrated,
(2) to be reinstated to the class, and
(3) that the University administration ensure that my rights as a student were protected.

That's it. I wasn’t demanding for his head, money, or anything else. I just wanted fair and courteous treatment.

There is a very important legal implication which arises from this mess which should be of utmost concern to distance learning students: A publicly funded university is required to provide and protect a student's right to a hearing. Courts have held that this right is one and the same as a person's Constitutionally guaranteed due process rights. Private universities are not held to such a standard. They are required to publish such policies, but if they fail to follow them, it is -at worst- a potential breech of contract, and it is very difficult to win such a case. Private universities do not face charges of civil rights violations for comparable failures. This difference is a key reason for distance learning students to choose a public university. It theoretically provides an additional layer of protection against crappy treatment. In this case, that protection disintegrated. Because the administration couldn't be bothered to intervene, I had no choice but to file a case in Federal court to protect my Constitutional rights. I filed in my local Federal district court in Worcester, MA.

The response (or lack thereof) from WNMU is not only telling, it provides a chilling effect for distance learning students everywhere. They filed a motion to dismiss due to lack of personal jurisdiction. Their argument was that they don't go looking for out of state students: I voluntarily came to them. Therefore they argued that I can't file in MA. The judge concurred and granted the motion to dismiss. [Note the merits of my case were never disputed by WNMU].

Here is the chilling effect which should concern all distance learning students: It is now a matter of case law that a student must be prepared to endure the additional expense of legally compelling a public university to provide the same level of service and protection that it does to its students who physically attend the university. Thanks to the administration of WNMU, all distance learning public university students are now "fair game" for any abuse and mistreatment that someone cares to dilly out. We are, in effect, second class citizens who must be prepared to endure significantly higher expense and emotional damage to make them provide basic civil rights to us. We pay the same money, but we don't get the same protection.

WNMU provides a cheap education, but in my experience, its sort of like getting a 'cheap' car. The wheels are bound to fall off much sooner than later. "Price is only an issue in the absence of value". In my experience, low price is the *only* thing working in WNMU's favor. They are clearly content to engage in a low price, low quality strategy for education. Sadly, the industries who follow such strategy are known for horrendous "oh yeah? make me!" approach to customer service. This type of strategy is commonly referred to as “a race to the bottom”. It does not bode well for the future. On the upside, I am one former "regionally accredited only" snob who now realizes that regional accrediting does NOT inherently equal superior instruction or service. I've lived it. I can't imagine a for-profit school having this abysmal level of service and staying in business. As far as the "non profits reinvest in the quality of education" argument I say: :Oh yeah? Take a walk on the wild Western New Mexico side".

As all the events surrounding this event were sent electronically, I have copies of everything and am willing to post if someone knows an appropriate repository. I want people to know that I'm not some mere disgruntled student. At all times, I conducted myself with respect for the parties involved, and communicated with Prof Gist and WNMU faculty and staff professionally. (Although I should note: Dr. Jenny Coleman, chair of the MAIS program, and her assistant Jessica have been very polite, professional, and as helpful as they possibly could be. Sadly, however, Dr. Coleman clearly has no direct or indirect authority to resolve these types of matters. She and Jessica are rare exceptions to every other experience I have had with WNMU.)

For now, I am finishing this semester, and plan to take one course this summer which is difficult to find anywhere else. In the meantime, the case, motion, and decision are currently being reviewed for Federal filing in NM, as well as state litigation in NM and MA. I am also preparing formal complaints with the Higher Learning Commision, the New Mexico Higher Education, and the U.S. Dept of Education.

And all I wanted was an apology and a commitment to equal treatment. What an awful person I am! :sgrin:

Daniel Chase
Southbridge, MA.
Case info: Chase v. Gist et al., Civil action 12-40020-FDS. US District Court, District of Mass.

 

Moderator Note: We ordinarily don't allow bad-mouthing of programs by relatively new members, but since the OP has provided a citation to his lawsuit, I decided to approve this post.

As with anything, DL has good & bad, and we need to know about the (alleged) bad as well as the good.

 

You are right to stress that

Bruce

Thanks for agreeing to post it.

You are correct is assering "alleged". Everyone has a right to the presumption of innocence. Neither Prof Gist nor WNMU has confirmed or denied them. I stand by the claims I have made here and in the now-dismissed case. I am so confident of their accuracy that I dont hide behind an annonymous. Screen name. Fact checkers are welcome. My point in sharing the my experience is two-fold: (1) A caution about the paricular program, and (2) as a thought provoking exercise in the RA v NA debate.

 

If you are looking for a place to host your documents you have several options. The most obvious is to upload them to a Google Docs account and then make them publicly sharable. Another option is pastebin. Both are of course free and anonymous.

I am curious as to your underlying claims. In other words, what started the whole affair.

The topic does concern me because I am a new WNMU student and I have never taken a program entirely on-line before. As my previous post on this topic stated, I have a mixed impression of WNMU so far. But I have seen enough good to at least continue on. And from everything I have read your experience does seem to be an outlier.

 

Jumbo,

I'll tackle your second question. I'm going to ponder the first request some more. My goal is not to shame Prof. Gist, though I recognize the words which would do that are his own. Nevertheless, I don't see how anyone here has an interest in reading them.

With some slight qualification, I believe you are 100% correct. My experience with WNMU instructors is most certainly an extreme case. 99.9% of students are not going to lock horns with an instructor. In the event of a situation like mine, most people would simply eat the cost and move on. I am not most people. My guess is that if re-incarnation exists, I was a bulldog in a prior life. I've always 'had a thing' against people who abuse their position, and I have very strong views on making sure the Bill of Rights remains the law of the land. But again I stress, my experience with this one guy is most likely rare, and by itself, it shouldn't be of concern to folks.

What *should* be a concern is the administration's response: The administration never once addressed my concerns. No emails, no return calls. I initiated a couple of calls and emails to the registrar and spoke with her by phone on 2-6 and followed up by email. I explained the situation, provided copies of the regs which I had found implying that Prof John Gist lacked the power to remove me and I asked her if there were other regs that I am was missing - ones which would support his action. The registrar could not provide any, and said that she was unaware of the action, and was unaware of any policy permitting a professor to do this. She said she was meeting with her boss, the VP of Student Affairs, later that day to discuss the matter. I requested a follow up, but never received any. The VP of Academic Affairs, the VP of Student Affairs, and the Humanities Dept chair were all copied on this discussion. I also asked the Chair of the Humanities department (Gist's supervisor) for a source granting him the authority and provided her with copies of the regulations as well. She responded that she "heard" that professors could do this, but was unaware of any published policy.

If you take this last line, and think critically about my allegations and the university response, the inevitable conclusion is one big, virtual middle-finger held upright and aloft. That is the essence of the University's response to very serious allegations. The policy of the Sr administration is to let professors do whatever they heck they want, regardless of how toothless it leaves the Regents. As I explained before, their legal policy makes distance learning students second-class citizens. To quote Al Gore: "There is no controlling legal authority..."

If you don't care about having a University which can follow its own policies, and price is your only concern, WNMU is for you. However other students' problems become your problem if accreditation questions arise. The only thing that separates WNMU diplomas from Mother Theresa's School of Social Work and Cosmetology is regional accreditation. That's it.

I will work on a public file to share relevant documentation.

 

Without knowing the genesis of this issue I find it impossible to take a side. There is every possibility that they ignored your issue because it was frivolous (I have no way of knowing).

I say let's see your e-mails and documents.

Sorry you had a bad experience.

 

Here's the salient documentation. I hope I have linked it properly. Although rebel100, I have no interest in people "taking sides". I don't need anyone on my side. I am happy to let people think what they want, whether it be that I am right, or I am a tool. My only interest is to provide info that prospective distance learning students should consider before spending money.

For now anyway, the private conversation which 'triggered' the whole thing shall remain private to protect the offender. However the gist of it (pun intended) may be gleaned for the many e-mails I have disclosed.

Scribd

 

It is also possible that the the response they provided wasn't what he wanted to hear. Even if you sugar-coat it, no is a bitter pill to swallow.

 

Have you ever seen New Mexico in person? That's reason enough for me never to attend a school there.

 

All I can say is check out the documentation. I never received an 'no'. I never received a 'yes'. I never received a 'maybe'. I never received a 'sorry'. The only thing I ever got from the university was...well... deafening silence.

If you aren't considering WNMU or another public university, its of no concern to you. Other wise it should be. Western New Mexico University has just established that distance learning students at a public university must be prepared to go to that university's state and legally compel them to provide the same Constitutional protections as resident students.

Just think about that one for a bit.

 

Chances are that we will never know but I would have to agree with this.

I skimmed the entire Motion to Dismiss and couldn't find a thing about what actually happened. On the first footnote it states "The complaint does not state what the professor is alleged to have done or how that alleged conduct abridged Chase’s constitutional rights." Why not re-file in a location that has jurisdiction?

According to this MD, you are the only DL student they have in Massachusetts. That's actually pretty cool...just saying :cool2: :banana:

 

No, but I lived in Colorado for eight years (seven years in Western Colorado and one year in Eastern Colorado). I'd like to believe that New Mexico is a lot like Western Colorado. The desert has its own unique beauty.

 

A couple of points here:

(1) For your purposes, follow the pdfs chronologically. Also take a look at the original complaint.

(2) I couldn't afford an attorney, so I gave my self a crash-course in legal research and hired a lawyer from another state to do some limited additional research and verify my understanding of the law, and format my argument into legalese. Thus the lack of clarity is my bad. However in retrospect I should have specified that the University was the ones who violated my Constitutional rights by not enforcing my right to a hearing.

(3) The matter is being reviewed and Federal and state court litigation is nearly certain. This time it will be with attorneys. The only thing that will prevent it is if the administration finally responds and is willing to discuss matter. But based on experience, I have no reason to believe they will. If I have to fund it privately, the retainer will be about $20k, and it will go North from there once it gets to trial. Kiss the IRA goodbye. :scared: However there are some other very interesting possibilities being explored that would eliminate my out of pocket expense.

 

I have been to that part of New Mexico. That campus is really nice. My aunt graduated from WNMU with both her BA and Master in Special Education. She loved it and spoke great things about that school.

 

I wouldn't read much into this statement - from a legal standpoint, this was the right strategy by WNMU. If the court does not have jurisdiction, it is quicker and less expensive to move to dismiss than to fight the charges.

Shawn

 

I would also be very interested to see these emails. Its easy to prove there was a case and it was dismissed. But what hasnt been proven is WHY the op was going after an apology to begin with. Was it a "perceived" slight? Was he wanting something that was considered special treatment and told no? Was there an actual misdeed by the professor? Im not saying it doesnt happen. Lord knows college professors arent perfect, and some can be downright mean. But the op has the burden of proof, and if he did not prove his case by providing the info about the situation that occurred that violated the college's rules, then its kind of easy to see why the case went nowhere. I have attended RA and NA schools. My last NA school was actually wonderful. Excellent classes and staff. My last RA school was HORRIBLE in every sense of the word. So in and of itself, I dont think RA automatically guarantees quality work, good professors, and top notch staff. BUT, sadly its a reality that RA schools afford certain luxuries that NA schools dont. Such as accepted and respected degrees and transferable classes. But I dont feel this is a RA vs NA situation. I think this is an "innocent until proven guilty" situation in which the op could not prove he was innocent and the college was guilty.

 

But wouldn't it be even cheaper and quicker to actually discuss the matter with the student first?

That's the problem.

 

NMTTD,

I've provided a large 'document dump' at Daniel Chase on Scribd | Scribd .

As of now, I still haven't posted the private exchange between myself and the professor, because what he said to cause offense is irrelevant. The issue is that he knowingly and willingly dropped me from the course because I filed a grievance. That was the actual 'trigger' over the legal aspect, and is fully documented in what I've provided. Daniel Chase on Scribd | Scribd

But as food for thought, let me ask a hypothetical. Lets say that in my private email to him, I cussed him out and said his dog was better looking than his mother. Would that warrant a professor removing the student from class, and the University failing to provide a hearing?

 

Depends on the matter. You seem to wish condemnation on the school....but you haven't really told us what Gist actually did.

Forgive me, but this must either be truly horrendous (I can't really imagine what) or you realize it's not that big of a deal yourself...otherwise why not just share what it is.

There isn't much out there on Gist, but the few things I can find indicate positive experiences. My own limited contact with the guy has been encouraging.

 

^ Yeah, this ^