please come together and give me some input on the International University of Health Sciences MD degree...there is a DL component available and I'd like to get some sincere and unflappable insight into this med school on St. Kitts...tahnks...imperoo
Here's what I posted in response to a comparable question, ten months ago: ------------------------------------------- When we were trying to learn more, for the 14th ed. of Bears' Guide (see page 268), it seemed to be a legitimate operation, run from Florida, with (of course) full accreditation from St. Kitts, offering just the preclinical portion of the MD degree, with some distance learning involved. Now, they seem to be doing the full medical degree (residential plus online) stating (www.iuhs.edu) that their graduates qualify to take the US medical licensing exam for foreign graduates, and that they are using online curriculum from the University of Sydney. ------------------------------------------- I haven't looked at them since. If their degrees truly qualify for US licensing exams, then they are worth considering. The sad news in this field is that the wonderful source of "sincere and unflappable insight," Dr. Carlos Pestana, of the University of Texas Medical School, has now retired. For many years, his heavily opinionated books on Caribbean and other "nontraditional" medical schools were the finest source of information. To my knowledge, no one else has ever done, or is doing, what he did: visiting all the schools, on a regular basis, with his medical experience and his academic experience (he has an M.D. and a Ph.D.), and writing candidly about what he found.
thanks Dr. Bear Having admired your work for years, I can only say that I am gratified to get an answer directly from you...the school sounds legit and it might well be worth going through the application process. I will check with WHO and ascertain exactly waht this organization has to say concerning these schools. Thanks again. imperoo
Now, John, you could do that. Of course, first you would need to get the M.D. After that, it would be smooth sailing... Tom Nixon
You need to check it out with ECFMG Before you spend the time and money, I would first check with the ECFMG (Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates) - which you need to get before starting a residency in the USA. I don't know their address, but they are located in Philadelphia. 1983 M.D. - St. Georges University School of Medicine Grenada
WHO are YOU... thanks for the tip...according to the ecfmg in Philadelphia as long as the WHO lists them then they are viable...I did not get a lot of insight from this organization (although you can download material from their site - www.ecfmg.org - I still need a final and definitive statement...the process of license seems arduous...any more information as to "what to expect" or NOT...imperoo
Remember the Dominican Republic Medical Schools There were a number of so called Dominican Republic Schools in the 80's theat eventually were found to be frauds. "Graduates" of these schools often never actually set foot on the islands. They never managed to get/keep their licenses. My word of caution: Check it TWICE...and get it in writing. I would request a specific answer from the ECFMG and the state board of medicine in your state if they would grant a license to a graduate of this school. Medicine is taught HANDS ON...while I don't have a theoretical problem with SOME of the basic sciences being taught by distance, the clinical skills can ONLY be learned by seeing and treating (under supervision) real live patients. I know that the State of PA has specific requirements regarding the specific number of weeks/hours of instruction. "Brick and Mortar" Medical Schools in the Philippines DO NOT qualify for licensure in Pennsylvania UNLESS students complete an internship in the Philippines (OPTIONAL). Why are you considering this school?
Factors Regarding St. Kitts Again, thanks for keeping me on my toes regarding this matter...last question first - I chose this school for the DL pre-clinical aspect and then the actual clinicals are done under the auspices of IUHS in the states or elsewhere...your comment on HANDS ON therefore seems (?) to be clarified via this 80 week clicical period...I am NOT married to IUHS (except that the eLP aspect is intriguing) and have NOT yet committed to anything so I am in the "dating stage"...I contacted edfmg and downloaded their license info...your tip about the state board is illuminating...edfmg says that if WHO recognizes the school (which they do) then they are kosher...did you read Dr. Bear's post above ? Again there are other mitigating factors involved in this decision BUT my point here is that at this time in my life I am somewhat excited at this prospect but I think I do not want to be blown away in this situation...more will help in this matter...stay closwe as I go through the motions...imperoo
More Questions About IUHS Checked with the PA Board of Medicine offers nothing informationally or otherwsie about IUHS...their attitude is GO TO SCHOOL and then they will judge the curriculum...I couldn't even press them to offer an opinion...what I need (now) is some methodology of evaluating the scene...how would I go about this and what should I look for...please help...imperoo
Board of Medicine I guess that is my point...Do you want to be the one to try to test the water. I suspect if you asked them if you could get licensed from Yale, Harvard, various Mexican schools, Italian schools etc, they would give a more definitive answer. My suggestion....Wait at least 4 years...until someone graduates, and see if they manage to get a residency, and eventually a license to practice in ANY state. The other option...Go to this school and practice in St. Kitts. I don't want to discourage you...I entered St. Georges University School of Medicine BEFORE the first class graduated. It was a calculated risk. Other than being located outside the USA, the curriculum was TRADITIONAL (not DL). Many of the issues with acceptance of DL are more important when the "acceptance" needs to be official recognition by a state board of Medicine. SUGGESTION: Try asking some OTHER boards of Medicine...New Jersey, New York, Maryland... See if you get a different answer. ALSO...Is the school registered wtih the General Medical Council (The British Authorities)...such registration would allow greater flexibility in working in Commonwealth Countries.
imperoo You might want to check out: http://www.aaimg.com/list/meeting.html IUHS is listed under schools with "significant deficiencies". Further, you might want to take a look at the IUHS message board at http://img.com.tripod.com/ Seems that a lot of folks there liken IUHS to a fraud. Check the other more reputable Caribbean schools (St. George's, Ross) and you won't see too many complaints.
Severely Mixed Messages John, thanks for the two sites; they will be helpful. I think the main problem is that IUHS doesn't go too far to be considered a fraud but just far enough to make youi skeptical. I will check with other states to ascertain their vitae on this place BUT the discussion site has not yielded the criticism that I (perhaps) seek regarding this school. Does anyone know if the WHO listings have any merit or are they merely clearing houses for disparate information ?!? imperoo
"better" than IUHS? imperoo, its been over a month since we were discussing IUHS, its DL component, and whether one could get licensed as a physician once you graduated from that school. I don't know what you decided to do with regard to IUHS, but I recently came across another school that offers DL for the basic science portion of the MD program. Its called the University of Health Sciences Antigua and has been around for 20 years: http://www.uhsa.ag/ The school has numerous programs for DL and on-campus, depending on your background. Under one of the 5 year MD programs, a student would only need to spend 2 weeks a year in Antigua during the basic science part (the first 3 years). You are permitted to find your own clinical education (the last 2 years) in an area near your residence, and if you cannot find one, the school will get one for you somewhere in the U.S. (or so they claim). The website is professional-looking and does not have the cheesy feel of IUHS's site. And unlike IUHS's site, there is quite a bit of information there if you dig hard enough. For one, they list names and e-mail addresses of many graduates who are practicing in the U.S. The school also lists some students who recently matched for residencies and documentary proof of same. Some present students are also listed, with e-mail addresses. Might be worth looking into if you are still interested in a DL (at least partly) MD program. JB
IUHS Anyone considering the so called 'internet' MD degree programs should check closely with their state medical boards. Indeed they tell you "When you have your MD degree and have passed the EFCMG and the USLME 1/2/3 exams,we'll evaluate you". What they don't tell you is that medical boards will give graduates of these programs temporary residency licenses so they can take their residencies but when it comes to permanent licensing they may not license you if you aren't a residential student. The additional problem is that schools like IUHS and the University of Health Sciences-Antigua have 2 types of students--some are residential and they don't have the same problems--the non-traditional programs are new and basically untested. Just now some of the students are entering 'residencies' which will take 2 or 3 years...then is judgement day..will they get licensed? If you do some research some of the graduates of the University of Health Sciences from the 1990's still haven't got accepted into residencies. Most of the students in the 'internet MD' degree programs appear to be chiropractors,dentists,physician assistants who can work under their other license and have the prestige of MD behind their name but not the license. How can you go to medical school and run a full time chiropractic,podiatrist,dentist practice--this is the type of thing that a news camera would love to find out against a medical board licensing board. This is especially quackery in that people go to oral surgeons and if they see MD think they are being offered additional protection in an emergency. IUHS is apparently housed in a private home in St. Kitts--that should give you some hints as to what you are dealing with. Amongst their faculty is a person listed as DPM,MD who mysteriously showed up with a MD degree,having practiced in the US as a chiropractor and podiatrist for many years---is he their first graduate? Be extremely careful. Your $20,000 a year in tuition to these schools could be lost. Consumer advocate
consumer advocate Nice post. You seem very knowledgeable about this area, are you an MD? Did you attend an offshore MD program? You stated that: "If you do some research some of the graduates of the University of Health Sciences from the 1990's still haven't got accepted into residencies." Where can I do research to find such information? Am I correct to assume these individuals were graduates of the regular, non-internet program? Do you know how long UHSA has had its distance learning programs? I have heard that back in the 80's, some school in the D.R. gave advanced standing to podiatrists, chiros, etc. Eventually, the state boards barred these students from getting licensed and even revoked licenses it had earlier given. Do you have further information on this issue? Thanks for your assistance.
University of Health Sciences-Antigua James, go to the website: http://www.uhsa.ag/ look at their alumni lists......take the names and run them through a search engine to see if they show up. If you can figure out what state they are in use the docfinder at the AMA site: http://www.ama-assn.org/ It has the majority of US licensed doctors,ama members or not in it. Quickly you will realize that alot of the people who have gone through this school are not licensed,some even 10 years later...not a good sign. Smart folks can get through the system so you will find some grads that have made it. For instance if you run a search for graduates of the program using Yahoo you will find a couple of folks if you dig hard enough. But mostly you will find a bunch of folks with the degree apparently unable to use it or no intention to use it,such as dentists who just want it for prestige. There are others like chiropractors Ellen Cutler (http://www.bioset-institute.com/) and Devi S. Nambudripad (http://www.naet.com/subscribers/index.html) in California who graduated this year who live in California which won't apparently let graduates get licensed anyway. Some sources point also to Louisiana,Pennsylvania,etc. that don't allow graduates to get licensed. I am an interested consumer. Not an MD. Just keep myself informed of things and I find potentially quackery interesting. The chiropractors who got MD degrees from Russia (there are a bunch of them) haven't got licensed. If you are non-residential,you have problems in getting licensed. Cheaper to buy yourself a phony doctorate and have business cards printed. The 'online' education components and 'advanced placement' parts of IUHS and University of Health Science are new things I think but probably will end up causing these schools to be seen as diploma mills. Consumers have a right to expect that their 'doctors' go to real medical schools where they dissect cadavers,experience their fellow students as part of the learning process. We don't allow our mechanics who have licenses to study online either. Consumer
Re: consumer advocate I think that advanced standing is often granted for those who have taken similar graduate courses. Does anyone know the differences among the education of MDs, DCs, DOs, DPMs, and NDs? I think it would be surprising
