Fake Harvard?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by TEKMAN, Apr 27, 2012.

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  1. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    Well, a friend of mine follows my foot step working on undergraduate degree while serving active duty in the Marine Corps. While serving in the Marine Corps Security Guard in Eqypt, China, and Saudi Arabia; I recommended him between Penn State and Arizona State for BS in Business Administration. His dream is attending Harvard Business School for MBA, but that dream depends on his academic standing and GMAT score. To make it short, he is currently attending Penn State University for last 3 years part-time via World Campus. Now, he wants to transfer to campus type at any top schools. He just applied to Georgetown University and New York University. He plans to use Harvard Extension School as backup, and he wants to know what is my opinion about it.

    So, I am doing a little search. I found that people criticize about Harvard Extension School degree. Particular this guy... Harvard & MIT extension schools have lower standards; however, on the official website states at all Harvard University's graduates are alumni. Of course, Harvard College and HES are completely different, but can one classifies him/her as Harvard University's alumni, or must specifies HES? It seems the debate likes UofMaryland-CP and UMUC.

    Anyway, can my friend has any chance to attend Harvard Business School with Harvard Extension School's undergraduate degree? BTW, he is Mexican...maybe he has the advantage of UMR?

    Thanks!!!!
     
  2. rebel100

    rebel100 New Member

    I don't have the link but HES states it is proper to state the degree:

    "ALB (or ALM) Harvard University in Extension Studies with a focus on ____________" (insert focus and any minor)

    You get folks denigrating HES all over the web, usually they miss certain facts.
    1. There is a 16 hour residence requirement, it's not a purely online degree.
    2. I believe 56 hours must taken with a Harvard instructor, almost half of the Bachelors (ALB)
    3. The coursework is considered to be equivalent to the coursework of the Harvard College classes...its not watered down.
    4. HES has been doing this for 100 years, nothing new, nothing shady about it.
    5. HES is one of 13 schools that make up Harvard University.

    I have decided not to worry about the internet commando HES haters...my daughter plans to start there in the fall.

    HBS....who knows. HES states that it's graduates have gone on to Ivy League Masters programs including the HBS...But I don't know if that means anything really. HBS accepts people form lots of different schools.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2012
  3. rebel100

    rebel100 New Member

    Also, while HES is "open" and anyone can take classes...the actual degree programs require you to pass three of their course before being admitted with a minimal grade of a "B"...it's actually a tougher standard than people realize. one of the classes must be a writing seminar called Expo 25 and I want to say that at least two courses must be Harvard faculty taught (I could be wrong on that part).

    Some great reading from actual HES students here: http://extensionstudent.com/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2012
  4. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    First, Harvard Extension School is ABSOLUTELY part of Harvard University. In fact TEKMAN, it is THE EXACT SAME THING as Georgetown's School of Continuing Studies that you attended. Did you go to FAKE GEORGETOWN?

    As to whether going to Harvard Extension will give him a better shot at going to Harvard Business School, I would say no. HES students do not have some kind of inside track into Harvard Business School (contrary to what some others believe). It MIGHT help if you were applying to the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, but then only because a lot of the teachers in the graduate school also teach at the Extension School and it is a good way to build relationships with professors.

    If the guy wants to go to HBS, he is going to need some quality work experience AFTER finishing his Bachelors degree. HBS is not really designed for folks to attend right after undergrad.

    Regarding that oracle dba website's opinion about HES. Why in the world would anyone listen to a guy's opinions of elite schools when he himself has never attended an elite school?
     
  5. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member


    Let me address this other point. All people who receive DEGREES (not certificates or people who just took classes) from HES are FULL ALUMNI of Harvard University. HES is just a school within Harvard University.

    For example, I don't recall whether your Masters degree at Georgetown has been conferred or not. But when it is conferred, you will be a full alumnus of Georgetown University AND the School of Continuing Studies. You WILL NOT be an alumnus of Georgetown College (the undergraduate program) or the McDonough School of Business. I am an alumnus of Georgetown University AND Georgetown College. I AM NOT an alumnus of the School of Continuing Studies or The Walsh School of Foreign Service.

    Regarding comparing UMaryland-CP with UMUC, that is an incorrect comparison. UMaryland-CP and UMUC are SEPARATE UNIVERSITIES each with their own Regional Accreditation. HES and Harvard College are separate schools within THE SAME UNIVERSITY.

    Remember, the School of Continuing Studies, the Walsh School of Foreign Service, Georgetown College, the McDonough School of Business, the School of Nursing & Health Studies, the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, the Law Center, and Medical School are all PARTS of a SINGLE UNIVERSITY called Georgetown University (hollowed be thy name) are eight schools within ONE UNIVERSITY. In the case of Harvard, it is twelve schools within ONE UNIVERSITY.
     
  6. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    The answer, minus all the rhetoric otherwise posted in the thread is "yes". HES meets the academic requirement of an accredited undergrad degree and he'll be a full Harvard alum.

    The reality is that HBS does not have a part time program so he'll be competing against everyone else applying for a spot in the MBA program including those from better schools and younger, older, what have you.. so the degree won't give him an advantage - but it will be better considered than anything from Penn State's distance arm.
     
  7. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Being in the area of Harvard, I know many, many people who have taken courses through Harvard Extension, but I only know one who actually completed a degree with them.
     
  8. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    It's the thesis. Scary stuff. Original research required. VERY FEW make it through.
    Open registration- just pay and take your class(es).
    If you want a degree, complete the pre-reqs (you'll have to pay cash because you're not a student yet, therefor don't qualify for financial aid) and this requires no less than 1 semester on campus. That semester for the proseminar can be in the summer (7 weeks) but you have to be physically present. Set aside about $10k for that.
    In addition, depending on the degree, you may have a field requirement. All of the Liberal Arts (19) have this, and field requirements are never online or in the summer. So, that's a full semester in Cambridge.
    Lastly, not everything counts in the degree program. For instance, I have completed 2 grad courses with them- 1 in psych and 1 in bio. The bio class "counts" in many degrees, but only as an elective, not in a bio degree. The psych course counts in the psych degree as a required course, but as an elective in other programs. If I were to complete the psych degree, I'd have the ability to complete all of the 6 allowed online courses, but if I go for bio, I'd have to go to campus. There simply are not enough that count via DL. In a nutshell, you're looking at 9 classes plus a thesis. The 9 classes can be made up of 6 DL classes. There are sub-requirements for each degree. You do, however, get to pick your own classes- which is really great. They don't have a "core" like many programs. (they do manipulate this slightly based on what they offer- in other words, those 6 DL courses are exactly what they want you to take lol).

    I just realized that I'm speaking about the master's program, and that maybe your friend is doing undergrad, but all the info is on the website. In addition, you can call them, they are very friendly and happily answer questions.

    It looks a little complicated at first, but spend an afternoon reading everything on the site and 99% of what you need to know is there. It's not expensive (~$25k total) but you have to float so much of that upfront, that it makes it hard for many people (myself included) which has prevented me from moving faster or forward.

    ....but I'm not out...it's a work in progress.
     
  9. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    This. I've said this many times, but frequently the college at a uni that offers distance learning is an Extension College, Adult or Professional Studies college, etc. This never seems to bother anyone, unless you are talking about Harvard. If only certain colleges within a university are legit, then a good chunk of people here have fake degrees. (which of course they don't)
     
  10. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Just great, huh? Even if I go to Harvard people will still call my degree fake :banghead:
     
  11. soupbone

    soupbone Active Member

    I'm confused, but is this a slight at Penn State or suggesting that HES is somehow academically better? I'd like to see any information that actually back this up. In name alone, you would be correct in that the Harvard name is recognized as being an academic leader, but Penn State is as well (of course it's not an Ivy League name). It's hard to tell in type, but I'm actually not being defensive, just curious. It sounds reasonable that if you graduated from HES, that you might be given additional consideration.
     
  12. soupbone

    soupbone Active Member

    "Complete a bachelor’s degree you began elsewhere or start fresh here at Harvard. To develop specialized skills for a career, you can pursue focused study in fields like international relations, economics, or psychology. You’ll find our tuition—at $975 to $1,150 per course—among the most affordable in undergraduate education."

    This is not bad at all considering the name recognition of Harvard. I imagine they could charge a lot more per course and still recruit students to the program. I also don't think the quality of a Harvard education would be in question, regardless of the fact that it's the HES. Many of the courses are taught by B&M professors.
     
  13. rebel100

    rebel100 New Member

    Note that the Harvard courses are 4 credits....so its an even better deal than it appears at first blush. $250/cr is competative!
     
  14. rebel100

    rebel100 New Member

    You know, it's funny. If they just called it the "Extension School" and dropped the Harvard everyone would probably just post about how you can get a degree just like Harvard for a fraction of the cost. This whole debate is absurd. In the end I'm proud of my CC roots and my Bachelor's from COSC. Why are people denigrated for an affiliation, however removed, from one of the most prestigious universities in the world? There is a total package to look at rather it be for entrance to HBS or acceptance of an applicant for a job. Harvard Extension School will look fine on either application. Regardless of where your degree is from you will likely need a more than just that to keep moving forward.

    How many kids that go to Harvard College get turned away from HBS every year?

    BTW...Penn State has a sterling reputation. But I bet some wish they had never founded a football team! (I'm making a point, not bashing Penn State). Always push yourself to do the best you can, attack problems from all angels, have a fallback plan, don't let the bastards keep you down.
     
  15. sideman

    sideman Well Known Member

    I second this.
     
  16. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    HBS keeps a database of graduates and current students dating back to 2000 that is accessible to students, alumni and employees. Ran a cursory search, two HES grads have attended HBS Since 2000. I didn't delve further so not sure if those two earned ALBs or ALMs. So do the math, roughly 1100 students per class since the year 2000. That 13200 students, 2 of them attended HES prior to enrolling at HBS. Long odds, but that's more than Auburn (we've had zero in that time frame).
     
  17. Paidagogos

    Paidagogos Member

    There is a guy on the Web that wrote a blog about the ins-and-outs of the HES program. I believe he was a Master's in History, or the equivalent in the program. I forget the name of the blog, but it went into great detail about the program. He made it through, but it took several years. His thesis was a BOOK, yes, a real BOOK, published by Harvard - not a 50 p. book report. Check it out! I'll see if I can find a link somewhere. :headbang:

    As far as I know, the standards of the classes in Harvard proper and the extension school are the same. Both courses will be rigorous. Good luck to your friend!
     
  18. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    1. Stating you're not being defensive means you're being defensive. I doubt if you had no affiliation with Penn State that you'd care. :)
    2. Penn State "proper" is better than Penn State Global, just like Harvard College "proper" is better than HES.

    Ergo, HES is "better" than Penn State Global. You don't need stats to back that up. It's common sense. This said, it's not meant as a slight.
     
  19. rebel100

    rebel100 New Member

    I would really like to read this, any luck figuring out who it was?
     
  20. soupbone

    soupbone Active Member

    Incorrect. Stating that I'm not being defensive is simply clarifying my intent due to the way in which type is lacking expression, and is often misunderstood. That's why I normally use emoticons or state what I did. ;)

    If PSU world campus is inferior to its B&M counterpart, then I guess I would have failed out. My program has been extremely rigorous and my professors have been very demanding. Of course I have bias due to my affiliation, but these are facts, not just my opinion. If anyone doubts that the world campus is every bit as difficult and on par with the quality as University Park, I invite them to enroll and then check back with me following a full semester. ;)

    As far as PSU vs. Harvard, I was just curious if you had any info that you could post. Well, besides the known U.S. News and World report. That's the only one I have ever referenced and PSU is definitely below Harvard. :)

    I wish HES had a grad cert in occupational safety & health or even environmental health. I'd love to give their courses a try. No doubt they would be tough.
     

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