Is accreditation enough to insure quality DL education?

Some people are uncertain.

CSAC Hearing: Is Accreditation Enough to Ensure Online Education Quality? - PR Newswire - The Sacramento Bee

 

Of course not, as there are plenty of examples of legitimately accredited schools who are incredibly bad.

I question the overall quality standards of all accreditation bodies in regards to just how strictly and consistently they stick to them. I'd bet that just about everybody can raise their hand and mention a bad school or two in their own backyard that has a cupcake curriculum and all kinds of corruption, and yet the school remains accredited.

 

I think that to answer the question requires some clarity and two perspectives.

Accreditation is not a measure to ensure educational quality for students. It's a measure to ensure that a school meets minimum guidelines to allow for aid, credit transfer and educational parity.

It's the responsibility of the student to ensure his or her education's quality as defined by what the student wants to do with the education and whether or not the education meets the needs of those desired outcomes.

This allows both conversations to exist and both types of students to exist.

A school can be accredited and suck compared to other equally-accredited schools.
A student can go to an accredited school and be a schlep, or go to the same school and reek of awesomeness.

 

Everything said in this article regarding online quality is just as true for traditional face-to-face courses, except that assessing the quality of an online course is easier than with a face-to-face course.

 

I have to disagree that face-to-face course are easier. Each student has their own way of learning; their own way of adapting to each college format type. B&M schools fit a certain student. Online schools fit a certain student. Hybrid classes fit a combination of the both. We all learn differently and I believe that's what people fail to differentiate. Some people are auditory learners, some visual, some kinesthetic learners. Ultimately the burden of quality relies on the student. I'm concluding this, not from fact per-say, but from an observation. I can say from my experience that my boss, a USC graduate in finance, is beyond stupid. Some of the things he says and the actions he portrays question the validity that he ever graduated from high school. Sorry, I know I'm talking about someone who I don't prefer, but honestly the burden falls on the student, not so much on the institution.

 

ITJD,

Sorry, I am not quite agree with you 100% because Harvard College does not accept Harvard Extension School 's transferred credits. Even though both schools are under Harvard University's umbrella.

 

That's a policy decision to prevent students from using the Extension School as a means around the Harvard College admissions policies for transfer students between UG programs at HU. It's not an accreditation factor.

Interesting point though to make as a retort is that all of the graduate schools at Harvard accept HES degrees as meeting their standards for admission.

 

Okay, let's do it. You first. Which schools are accredited yet "incredibly bad." And why of course. Feel free to go beyond your own backyard, of course.

 

I think that you misunderstood the content of my post. I did not say that face-to-face courses are easier. You are correct that different students learn better in different ways. My statement was that assessing the quality of online courses is easier than assessing the quality of face-to-face courses. As a Dean, I can go into any of our online courses as an administrator and get complete activity reports on all students and the instructor. I can see the course announcements and the discussion forums and check the feedback given to students on their assignments. I can also see most, if not all of the instruction given to students within their weekly lessons. This is not possible to do for multiple face-to-face courses.

This is why it is nearly impossible to truly assess the quality of a face-to-face course. Student end-of-course assessments are one source of data, however a good but rigorous teacher can get low student reviews, while a less capable teacher who is an easy grader can get high marks.

 

WOW. So I guess I need to ask the obvious question, is getting a HES education the same as getting a Harvard education? I mean, I know its an extension of Harvard but if Harvard wont accept the credits then whats the point? Are they saying the quality of the work isnt the same? Why would they offer an online extension program and then not accept it? Makes no sense.

Also, ASHFORD UNIVERSITY is a perfect example of a RA school that is TERRIBLE. Quality of work, text, teaching, customer service, ALL OF IT. Horrible. I've heard some not so good things about University of Phoenix but I dont have any personal experience with them so I cant say for sure. Now are we limiting this to only RA schools, or NA schools as well? Because if we're including NA schools, then I must add Central Florida Institute ans National College of Business and Technology. Both are HORRIBLE in every sense of the word. Not one single good thing about either of them.

Accreditation DEFINITELY does not guarantee a good education. Not at all.

 

Yes, for the obvious reason that Harvard Extension School is a degree-granting division of Harvard University.

Now, it's true that there are other degree-granting divisions of Harvard. For example, Harvard College (HC), Harvard Extension School (HES), and Harvard School of Engineering and Applied Sciences (SEAS) all grant bachelor's degrees. Maybe the question you are asking is this: Is a bachelor's degree from HES equivalent to a bachelor's degree from HC or SEAS?

In that case, the answer would be no. The different schools have different admissions and credit transfer policies. They may even have different accreditation; for example, many SEAS bachelor's degrees have ABET accreditation, while no HC or HES degrees do. All three schools issue Harvard bachelor's degree, but nobody claims that the degrees are the same.

HES online courses are accepted by HES. There is no guarantee that other Harvard schools will accept HES coursework, but Harvard is no different from other large universities in this regard. For example, UC Berkeley does not guarantee that Berkeley Extension courses will be accepted by all divisions of the university.

Do you really expect that coursework at Harvard Divinity School will be automatically be accepted for credit at Harvard Business School ? Or that coursework at the Harvard Graduate School of Design will automatically accepted at Harvard Dental School ? All of these schools issue valid Harvard degrees, but no one expects them to represent the same kind of education.

 

Are there courses in a degree program at HDS that are the same as some found in a degree program at HBS? If I take a course in Interpersonal Communications at HDS and it's the same as a course in IC at HBS, then I would expect a transfer to be possible. With religious programs, I realize that many focus on religious matters, some entirely having no secular courses. But, I've also found a number of such programs that do have secular courses. Now, whether or not HBS would want to accept my same course from HDS is up to their interal policy of course. But as a student, you'd certainly expect to be able to transfer a course that matches with a course at another school, especially when it's under the same umbrella and having matching accreditation.

 

Well noted... Forgive me for misunderstanding your original post. If you don't mind me asking, what school/college do you administer?

 

What he said.....

 

I'm sorry, but in this case, that is not a realistic expectation.

For example, Harvard Extension School and Harvard College both offer an Introductory Calculus sequence, under the same umbrella and same accreditation.

HES has open admission.

At HC, on the other hand, admission is extremely selective, and the standard for math ability is very high. The HC average student has a Math SAT score around 750. In fact, a significant fraction of the class will have a perfect Math SAT score of 800.

Do you really expect the grading standards for math students to be identical between the two schools ?

I'm sure that the calculus classes at HES are perfectly good. But realistically, I don't expect them to be graded on the same curve as those at HC.

 

@CalDog

But my point is that there is a difference between what a student would normally think they should be granted in a given situation, versus what a school's policy is. You have to remove things like: reasoning, standards, policies, etc. from the concept of the student's point of view since often times they are either unaware of those things, or upon becoming aware still just want the credit in spite of it all.

Now, you personally may not have that expectation. But you're also aware of the policy and have accepted the reasoning. We know that not all students will fall into line with that position in that situation. Is it on the student when that happens? Absolutely, because every school should have the right to set their own standards and policies, but that won't stop students from having a different persepctive on it and attempting to challenge the system, or at the very least questioning the system.

So, if I took a course at HDS and it was the same as one at HBS, yes I would expect a transfer especially if I weren't aware of the policy, and I might even make a futile attempt at challenging it upon finding out about it... but my expectation and my challenge may both be equally irrelevant because HBS' policy is going to determine whether that transfer will take place or not anyway.

 

Perhaps the fact that Harvard College does not allow its students to take Harvard Extension classes for credit might serve as an additional relevant datum. This policy would, after all, be consistent with the assumption that HES classes have a more relaxed grading curve.

Would you also assume, by default, that Harvard's NCAA tournament basketball team (which is selective) has the same standards as the Harvard intramural basketball teams (which have open access) ?

 

Just to make it clear, I am a fan of the Harvard Extension School. It's great that Harvard has an open-enrollment division, I accept that in this case open enrollment is associated with rigorous academic standards, and certainly their graduates have every right to be proud of their degrees. More elite schools should have such programs.

However, I don't expect HES to match other Harvard schools in terms of things like grading standards, research impact, completion rates, etc. It's a different kind of program, and so there have to be different expectations. As one HES student puts it:

So OK, an HES degree isn't the same as an HC degree. But it's still a good degree, and it's still a Harvard degree.