Installment 2: What do you think about an English BA from UCLA?

This is my next question about my daughter's awesome acceptance into UCLA. When she applied, unbeknownst to me, she applied into UCLA as an English major. Daddy is not happy. English is a respectable concentration, and she is an amazing writer, but I'm not certain about the job opportunities that would be tied to it. UCLA is expensive and I don't want to become one of those poor fools that spend a bundle to have their kid earn a useless degree.

Shawn suggested that English/Communication majors are often sought by businesses and that made me feel better. The fact that it comes from a respected school like UCLA might help a little too. Any other opinions? Should I try to intervene? She is also interested in marketing and counseling.

 

This is a tough one. But, being that the degree would be from UCLA she'll have a shot at more choice opportunities outside of English, but certainly not as many if she chose a more sought after field.

All you can really do is explain to her what your concerns are about the major(s) she's choosing, and explain to her all the matters concerning job prospects. But after that, it's a thin line between advising and potentially pushing which could create resentment later if she chooses a different major than the one her heart is set on.

 

An English Degree Can Translate Into Opportunity

www.lafenty.hubpages.com/hub/Ten-Things-to-do-with-an-English-Degree

Here are two articles I found while doing a Google search. The best of luck to both you and your daughter, and congratulations on her acceptance!

 

Besides the obvious (elementary/high school English teacher), I've read more than once that English is a good undergrad major for law school, considering the heavy reading & writing load.

Also keep in mind John Bear's advice that a four-year degree is a very valuable commodity in the job market. I'll add my own observation that the Occupy turds who were in the media complaining that they couldn't get a job with their 12th Century French Philosophy degrees were likely holding out for a $80K entry level job. If someone is humble and is willing to take entry level jobs initially, I don't think they will have that much trouble finding employment with a degree, especially from a school like UCLA.

 

Awesome, Bruce. I'm feeling better. Thanks.

Fortunately, she has the proper AA degree concentration (IGETC) to fit the UC program, so she can come in as a legit junior and should be done in two years. That cuts the cost in half. With what you say and the 1/2 pricetag, maybe the ROI will not be so bad for her.

"Occupy turds" LOL!

 

I know it's tough as you're footing the bill for this program (and of course you want the best for your daughter). That said, my advice would be to let your daughter choose the major she is most interested in. While it is often said that English majors end up working as waiters, or some other type of low-paying job, that is not always the case. And as others have pointed out - the degree will be from UCLA, which means she could probably major in underwater basket weaving and still land a good job upon graduation. A double major is a good idea as well, but of course that would likely add a semester or two to her program (and your bill!).

 

I'm going to be brave and buck the trend in this thread and say that I think that English is not a very good major. Most people I've known who major in English end up doing one of two things...

1) They end up teaching English in high school (nothing wrong with that)

or

2) They end up working in a field that doesn't even require a college degree in the first place.

I went to high school with a brilliant girl who earned an English degree from the University of Virginia. I've loosely followed her career path and she has never worked a job that was even remotely related to her degree.

The job market is a wreck right now. The U6 unemployment rate (the real unemployment rate) is at 14.5% right now....depression-level unemployment. The days of being able to major in any old thing and end up doing well in life are over. It really is a good idea these days to major in something that leads directly to a promising career.

 

Lets go back to basics.

1. If you're asking the question it's because you know the answer.
2. Your daughter is a woman and already has that working against her, no offense meant.
3. It's all about what will make her happy, which if she's like a lot of women is based on female societal norms not geared towards fields that make a lot of cash.

So what I'd say is buck trends to be a high earner. If she's ok with making 40k for a good chunk of the career then go the path she's walking as she may be happier. The school part of the equation is over-rated as it only affects the first job.. which if it sucks will make the rest of that chain, suck and for ROI you're looking longer term than the first job.. most graduating seniors leave their first job in 2 years.

My recommendation straight up is to go into a STEM field and avoid all three suggestions provided. Entry level salaries in those areas are less effected by gender and growth in those fields yields higher income in shorter time. There are also good programs falling over backwards to admit female students.

Counseling without a doctorate yields 20k annual salaries with a top end 50k in a school system someday.

Marketing and Sales are excellent career fields that have the highest percentage of future CEOs in all business disciplines, but there's a glass ceiling for women that only the brightest break; and should she go into sales there's a brutal push to be a barbie doll.

English leads to publishing and teaching careers but you're best getting a graduate degree and even then, until you get to late career you're not making good coin.

 

If you are paying for the school then you probably have some sway in the major choice. I agree that English is not a very good major. Of course most people go to college for the "experience" of it and the expanded learning opportunities. But if she is concerned about her career prospects then perhaps she should look into, as ITJD noted, the STEM field.

Of course we can all find articles stating that one field is better/worse than the other, but I think when you look at the larger picture most people with mobility and STEM degrees have much lower unemployment rates than others.

If you have to convince yourself that the major is OK, instead of almost instinctively knowing that it is OK, you're probably questioning this choice for a reason. I have a hard time believing that my kids will not be the exception to EVERY rule, but I'm pragmatic enough to know that my fantasy and the real world do not match up. Be cautious, forward-thinking and do your research.

Good luck to you and especially your daughter.

 

Excellent advice.

Also, here's an excellent article about the current employment prospects for recent graduates. It's not pretty....

1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or underemployed - Yahoo! News

 

All I have to offer is my experience. I got a BA in English, never intending to use it, other than to be able to check the box, if asked if I had a degree. I went into full time ministry for 15 years. Then that all came to a screeching halt, for various reasons (not relevant to this, but not any big deal). I had to do something to support my family. For the last couple of years, I saw the writing on the wall in ministry, and so worked on a MAT in English from West Alabama. I got in a couple of semesters of adjuncting after graduating, then got a job teaching HS for one semester, before getting a full time gig at a community college, plus several online adjunct opportunities.

All of that to say that my English degree had fed my family for 4 years now, providing more income than my ministry ever did.

There will always be lots of doom and gloom out there. The reality is that people who work hard will find a place, regardless of the field.

 

There's a quote out there that says something like "Formal education will make you a living, but self-education will make you a fortune".

Only 60% of occupations require a college degree/training (it goes even lower than that if you take out two year degrees and after high school certification and training requirements).

 

Perhaps a BA in Linguistics and English will work for her? Not that linguistics is in super high demand either, but this major would provide a technical background in how languages work and still allow for traditional studies in English. I don't believe that this is a double major per se - more like a combined major. Anyway, might be worth a look.

There are also a number of "Linguistics and (insert major)" combinations available, such as "Linguistics and Psychology", "Linguistics and Computer Science", etc.

 

hmmmmm

I know of a number of folks with English degrees who have done very well. While I don't have the normal liberal arts background, I was hired in my first technical job because I had a degree in English. The job required a significant amount of on the job learning and self study. The man who hired me had good success with other English degreed individuals and followed a trend of hiring others with similar academic backgrounds. This job was with Ricoh corporation.

I continued along the technical path and found that my background enabled me to: write business cases, employee appraisals and performance awards, reduce technical material to more managable, less technical, language for various audiences, speak to various audiences, and many other intangibles that have provided measures of success to my employers, employees, and myself.

My BA supported my career and moved me in to a six figure income long before I completed an MBA.

This quote: "There will always be lots of doom and gloom out there. The reality is that people who work hard will find a place, regardless of the field." absolutely sums up any degree or field.

Some recommendations that I would make: remember the 3 R's and encourage your daughter to finish through calculus. The reason for this recommendation is that as circumstances change a business degree might be in the future. Trying to catch up with math later in life can suck. Complete the basic business courses (AACSB pre-reqs), both micro and macro economics, two classes of accounting, etc... if possible.

I would offer that a business minor would make a strong degree and provide a diverse program.

My daughter is studying languages (not counting English and redneckese) and we have had this same discussion. I encouraged her to include some international business courses as part of her program to coincide with the language elements.

Lastly, I completely briefed my daughter on job market and income expectations so that she could make an informed decision. Ultimately it is my dauhter's life to lead not mine.

My personal opinion is that education is the start, not the finish, of any career path, a path that will take turns as life works its way in to the future.

You are a great model for her, I'm sure she will do well and pass along my Congratulations! to her.

Best wishes

 

What profession does she want to pursue? So far we know what majors she is interested in but not the what profession. At the "end of the day" that is probably what really matters. If she doesn't want to be an engineer, scientist, etc. then her getting a STEM degree (which I would vote for over an English major) would be pointless.

 

Have her get a second major in a useful field.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

Yeah, this is a great idea, makes you more marketable, and depending on how closely the two subjected are related it make not end up being too much extra time or money to make it happen.

Ultimately, I say let her study what she wants within reason. She will pay more attention and make better grades! Although, doubtful that she has a problem doing that in the first place considering she got into UCLA!

 

Look at it this way: many people become successful and make a good living with no degree at all. I don't think a choice of major necessarily dooms anybody, but some majors aren't an automatic pathway to career success (creative writing or philosophy, for example). My question would be "what do you plan to do for a living with a degree in English?" If she has a reasonable answer to that question, then no problem. If she hems and haws and doesn't really have an answer, then she'll need to give it some thought.