Good info, need mo (re Jungian psychology degree options)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Chip, Mar 11, 2002.

Loading...
  1. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Larry 46 wrote (transferred from the "Tell us how Degreeinfo has helped you" thread):

    (snip)... The pickle for me, at age 56 and wanting to pursue a doctorate in areas of personal interest (Jungian psychology, mythology, … the "religious function of the psyche") while continuing to work full-time and not intending to use the degree for career
    purposes... (snip)... The two RA schools that seem to offer the best opportunities to pursue my areas of interest, Pacifica Graduate Institute and
    The Union Institute, present significant cost and logistics obstacles, especially if "attending" part-time. I have found two unaccredited schools that seem to offer appropriate flexibility and curriculum opportunities (Greenwich and Westbrook (New Mexico)), but their lack of RA status gives me pause.



    Hey, Larry! I copied your message here so others could see and benefit from the thread.

    As for Westbrook... stay away. The school has moved across state lines at least twice when it was unable to meet minimal standards in California and then later in Arizona. It uses bogus accreditors (one operates out of the back of a health food store, the other out of someone's home... and both of the accreditors are operated by people on Westbrook's faculty), and its proprietors have been instrumental in trying to squash the legitimate naturopathic licensing and accreditation authorities.

    Greenwich? Wellllll... they've got some excellent people on their faculty, and some fairly high profile graduates (Carolyn Myss, for example), but their recent end-run accreditation actions with Norfolk Island and the short-lived bogus accreditor listed on their site makes me uncomfortable.

    You might also look into the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology in Palo Alto, CA. Recently (within the last 3 years) got RA, has very innovative programs based heavily on the work of Jung and other humanistic/transpersonal psychologists. I am thinking that Saybrook (also in San Francisco) may also have some distance learning programs in that area.

    If you're truly doing it only for self-enrichment, you might consider contacting the Jung Institute. There's one in San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York and Cleveland, that I know of, and they have excellent educational programs, discussion groups, and other resources for learning about Jung's work. And there are a few other schools with DL-based courses (but not necessarily degrees) in transpersonal psychology and related areas.

    Best of luck!
     
  2. Larry46

    Larry46 New Member

    (Jeez, I certainly must not yet have mastered the mechanics of how to use this forum; I logged in, was welcomed in, wrote a reply, asked to see a preview, and got a note that I wasn't logged in and my entire masterful missive disappeared. Bummer! So, here I am in Word, so I won't lose the whole thing again - - )

    Chip, you are a scholar and a gentleman. Thank you so much for your thoughtfulness in creating a new thread that is more appropriate to my note and concerns.

    In my internet search for a school that will meet my intent, I have looked at Saybrook and California Institute for Integral Studies, in addition to Pacifica and TUI, to say nothing of about a zillion mill sites. Amazing and distressing. If I had lots of time and cash, there are some great opportunities available. But I intend to continue with my income job, I won't spend a small fortune or borrow to pursue my grandpa school thing, and I want to be able to do it pretty much from where I'm sitting right now. Limited residence, such as thru TUI, would be workable, but TUI's tuition meter, running full speed during my part-time work, would prove to be quite distressing.

    Considering the positive commentary I've read regarding Greenwich's academics, it is most unfortunate (and shortsighted, I think), that they don't pay more attention to the issues of accreditation and their image. Maybe Papa Bear oughta pay 'em a friendly visit and knock a few heads together! Likewise for Westbrook, although that appears to be a more serious problem. Too bad, 'cause from their catalog, they seem to have a pretty decent offering in Jungian "stuff."

    So. For all its shortcomings, I'm leaning toward Greenwich, 'cause of their curriculum and cost and what I've read about staff, etc. Hell's bells, if it's good 'nuf for ol' Dr. (!) Carolyn Myss, why not for me, too, eh? (Assuming my acceptance, of course!)

    Sure would be good to hear from more GU graduates and students!

    Thanks again, Chip.
     
  3. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Hi Larry - I'm assuming from your comments that you are not planning on becoming a Clinical Psychologist, i.e. getting license, hanging up a shingle, doing 50 minute hours, etc. If I'm right then you may have more options available to you than you're considering. The first thing you might want to consider is that you don't necessarily need an entire school, or an entire department devoted to your area of interest. You only need one person, your doctoral program advisor (or whatever they're called) to be able to support your research. Check the faculty listings for people who share your interests. It is also possible to approach the subject from other perspectives, for example, the history of Jungian psychology, the philosophy of mythology, or cognitive (consciousness) studies. I don't know what your academic background is like but if it's a bit scant in your area of interest it's possible that you might have to start out in a Masters program. That might open up some more possibilities as some schools, like the British schools, seem reluctant to take on a PhD candidate that they don't know. If you earn a Masters there, they get the opportunity to get to know you and your work and may be more welcoming of a PhD application from you afterward. In any case, be flexible, think outside the box, and don't give up.
    Jack
     
  4. Howard

    Howard New Member

    May I suggest that you try South African Theological Seminary. Professor Song seems willing to work with most people in their arrea of interest.....whether or not he would feel comfortable in your area is something you could ask. You can contact him through the web page for the Seminary. If you enroll within the year the degree will be issued through the University of Zululand, a GAAP school. The cost will be under 5,000 dollars due to the fantastic exchange rate for the dollar to the rand. Good Luck.
     
  5. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Larry, 2 things:

    1) I suspect that the login problem you had is related to cookies. The software uses cookies to keep track of your userID (and what threads have been changed since you last visited, so you can see new postings easily). We don't track your activities or anything, so there's no privacy issue...

    2) In keeping with the spirit of Jack's suggestion, you might want to check with JFK University in Orinda. They have a very good group of professors in their holistic studies department, which includes doctoral-level transpersonal psychology. Perhaps you could arrange a one-on-one mentorship thing.

    I am still very leery of Greenwich. Even though they have some good faculty, one of their most respected people (Norm Sheely, MD) left, apparently dissatisfied with some of the goings on there.

    If you've followed the Columbia Pacific thing, you know that that school was once one of the most respected unaccredited schools out there, and it's now reduced to operating in Montana (a state with no licensure) and claiming accreditation first from a Native American tribe in Nevada, and now from the Republic of Malawi (?)

    Given that fall from grace, and Greenwich's recent millish behavior, I would have a very hard time recommending it at this point. If you truly are seeking only the knowledge, I'd say find a mentor you really like, work with him or her individually, and let it go at that. It will be much less expensive, and you'll still get the knowledge you seek, but you won't have to worry about whether you'll end up with a "less than wonderful" degree somewhere down the line.

    Best of luck!
     
  6. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Re: Carolyn Myss

    Carolyn Myss has been mentioned in this thread (and others) as a successful alumnus of Greenwich University. In reality, she is much more than that, and her ties to Greenwich run deep.

    In addition to her involvement with The Caroline Myss Institute in Australia (set up to train accredited Archetype Consultants to conduct Archetype Readings and Interpretations), Dr. Myss is dean and founder (along with Dr. C. Norman Shealy) of the Institute for the Science of Medical Intuition which runs a four-year training program in Scientific Medical Intuition. Up to 12 graduate credits (of the 24 required) for the Medical Intuition program be included as a part of the HUGS (see below) Th.D. program.

    Drs. Myss and Shealy originally started their graduate program in Energy Medicine under the auspices of Greenwich University. In 2000, the program was expanded and placed under the auspices of Holos Institutes of Health, Inc., which started granted Ph.D. degrees out of South Dakota. In 2001 (after the state of South Dakota tightened their lax education regulations), Holos University, was renamed Holos University Graduate Seminary (HUGS), moved to Springfield Missouri (a state with religious exemption for unaccredited schools), and was placed under the auspices of the International Science of Mind Church for Spiritual Healing. HUGS currently offers Th.M. and Th.D. degrees with a specialty in Spiritual Healing/Energy Medicine, with Specialty Tracks in Medical Intuition, Transpersonal Psychology, and Integrative Healthcare.

    HUGS claims to be an affiliated college within Greenwich University. In fact, they state that that upon completion of the HUGS program, graduates may transfer all of their credits to Greenwich University, submit the theses or dissertation to the Greenwich Energy Medicine program, and receive a Greenwich Masters or Ph.D., for no additional fee. HUGS graduates, therefore, have the option of being awarded the dual degrees of a HUGS Th.M. plus a Greenwich M.S., or a HUGS Th.D. plus a Greenwich Ph.D. If indeed Dr. Shealy has cut his ties to Greenwich University, it will be interesting to see what happens to this relationship.

    The HUGS faculty list reveals quite a few professors with legitimate regionally accredited Ph.D.’s, although their specialties are in completely unrelated fields such as History or Geography, and it includes at least one professor that earned their Ph.D. from Holos Institute of Health in the brief time is was located in South Dakota.

    And Dr. Myss’s Personal Biography (also propagated on other sites) contains a glaring error as it claims that she earned a Masters Degree in Theology from Mundelein College. Mundelin College, a school for Adult Learners affiliated with Loyola University Chicago, does not offer Masters degrees. Although it is possible that Dr. Myss earned her Masters at Loyola, it is incomprehensible (especially considering Loyola is much more prestigious than Mundelein) not to list it as such. Moreover, Dr. Myss’s work is not without its detractors, as described in this article by the Council for Media Integrity, a group claiming to be a network of prominent scientists, academics and members of the media concerned with the balanced portrayal of science in the media.
     
  7. Re: Re: Carolyn Myss

    Perhaps she meant Mundelein Seminary?
     
  8. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Carolyn Myss

    It is possible, but probably unlikely. Her bio specifically states Mundelein College, and furthermore Mundelein Seminary offers a Master of Divinity, not a Master of Theology degree. Moreover, on other Web sites I have seen references that she received her degree from the Mundelein affiliated with Loyola.
     
  9. cbkent

    cbkent Member

    Larry--

    You may wish to check out Saybrook. http://www.saybrook.edu
    They offer RA M.A. and Ph.D. degrees in psychology.

    Christopher
     
  10. Larry46

    Larry46 New Member

    Good Heavens! Is there no end to the tangled web of inflated egos, alphabet-soup designations, flim-flams, and cash?!?! Culture is indeed the manifestation of psyche - and the more deeply we peer, the more tangle we see.

    What's a poor, myopic, out-of-shape, hasn't-been-to-school-in-22-years grandpa to do?

    Going back a couple notes to address a couple questions: I have an MA in psychology from Antioch University/Seattle. It was a personal-interest endeavor, begun in 1978 and finished in 1980 to take advantage of the last two years of eligibility on my GI Bill education benefits. I do not work in the field of psychology; I've worked since 1973 as a mainframe computer business applications programmer (for the money, not the interest or aptitude). I've been reading Jungian psychology, mythology, and other "religious function of the psyche" material for about 30 years. And I'm now interested in studying these areas of interest at the doctoral level. I'm not looking for a clinical program.

    So . . . the pickle: I'm trying to find a program that I might complete within 3-4 years, at a cost of perhaps $10-15,000 (rather than something in the tens of thousands!), and that offers me some flexibility in the design of my program. I don't need something that will open golden career doors for me at the age of 60, but I don't want to embarrass myself, either. I'll obviously have to do some compromising one way or another to proceed.

    Many thanks for the helpful comments, Gents.
     
  11. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Look at:
    Charles Sturt University
    University of South Africa
    University of Tasmania
    Each, reportedly, has non-clinical psychology doctorates that can be completed non-residentially.
    Jack
     
  12. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    Larry --

    You might also keep an eye on Northcentral University; they're candidates for regional accreditation, and offer an 100% online Ph.D. in Psychology that could probably be tailored to a Jungian curriculum. I can't wholeheartedly recommend them yet, but as U.S. options go...

    You might also look into the regionally accredited California Institute for Integral Studies, which offers a very low-residency (five days per year, I think) Ph.D. in Humanities with emphasis in Transformative Learning and Change. CIIS is very much what I would call a "Joseph Campbell school," and quite Jung-at-heart.

    Beyond that, I don't know what to tell you. Greenwich isn't a bad school, as unaccredited schools based out of Norfolk Island go, but I have to concur that I have a hard time recommending them to anyone now; they've done too much over the past five years to destroy the respect so many folks in DE circles had for them. Seven or eight years ago they would have probably been a really good choice, particularly in your field.

    I expect an awful lot to happen over the next couple of years in the area of DE; all we really need is a school that does what Greenwich did ten years ago, preferably with the backing of some bigwigs who can see to it that it doesn't change. Much.

    Are you talking low-residency or no-residency, BTW? If you're able to spend a week or two in Australia or the UK, I've got quite a few schools on my list (and others on theirs, in all likelihood) that might be workable for you.

    Good luck.


    Cheers,
     
  13. Larry46

    Larry46 New Member

    Thanks for all the commentary here, Gents. I talked with CIIS, but my background and intent do not meet what they want for the DL pgm.

    It appears to be the devil or the deep blue sea. Do I wanna spend a LOT of time and a LOT of money studying areas of psychology in which I have no interest in order to accomplish RA? Or do I go into a program that offers what I want but doesn't have the RA credibility? Bummer. Since I would be 60 or so before completing a PhD, and more interested in retiring than in beginning another career, I'll probably opt for the latter. Bummer again. But I'm not quite ready to leap yet.
     

Share This Page