"Occupy Student Debt"

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Jonathan Whatley, Nov 22, 2011.

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  1. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    Occupy Wall Street Moves Into New Phase With Student Debt Refusal Campaign (Anya Kamenetz, Fast Company, November 21, 2011)

    I tend towards the old-fashioned idea that the way to refuse debt is to not sign on to debt in the first place, rather than to sign on to it then recant it. I take this sort of thing seriously in my own life.

    That said, I am sympathetic to students and alumni some in very difficult situations.

    And I wish "our" ways of "hacking" higher education were more widely known, which is not to say they are or should be scalable to everyone.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2011
  2. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Forgive voluntary loans? Don't attend college, that's how you eliminate college debt.

    Yeah this makes plenty of sense. Let's give money away to the one sector of the population who, on average, make more than most, have a lower unemployment rate, and as a group have had their income grow over the past 50 years. If we are gonna bail out people, then it should be those with high school educations whose employment opportunities are next to nil.

    So, just so I understand these OWS'er geniuses. Bailouts are bad and atrocious and unforgiveable. We protest for months on end stating "No Bailouts!" "Bailout People not Banks", and their solution is another bailout?

    At least 77% of the TARP funds have been PAID BACK. Incluing 100% of Goldman Sachs + Interest. The government made money on that deal.

    Good grief. Sympathy? Sure, but not that much.
     
  3. Sauron

    Sauron New Member

    Its hard to have sympathy for an NYU student saddled in debt when there are so many good schools in NYC and the NE that cost less and have just as good if not better programs. NYU is a great school but I am against forgiving debt unless there is state, federal or military service attached to it.
     
  4. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    Some companies were forced to take bailout funds when they did not want those funds and then they were forced to pay fees to accept said funds and fees to pay those funds back.
     
  5. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    I agree. It is sad to see that so many expect to get some sort of free ride. I think that our society, much like our government, has far too little fear of excessive debt. They carelessly go into debt for something they want and then find themselves saddled with a burden that haunts them for much of their life.

    Part of that issue is failure to do due diligence research before attending an expensive school. There are so many cheaper ways to earn a degree.
     
  6. Paidagogos

    Paidagogos Member

    I couldn't have said it better myself.
     
  7. lovetheduns

    lovetheduns New Member

    I don't have an issue with student loans backed by the government.

    Due to some issues with my work and a longer story where I was going to have my employer pay approximately 80k of my tuition and now may only get 20k-- assuming I remain employed!-- I realize that for some jobs it is just the price of the entrance fee.

    To be frank, to get into a BCG, McKinsey, Bain-- you are not going to be able to take just any AACSB MBA and get into that line of work. At my own company for internal transfers into our consulting and leadership development track-- they are now becoming VERY picky about the MBA program. I don't blame them- if they are only recruiting at MIT, Harvard, Duke, etc-- then why would they just look at the internal guy who has had some decent experience and then got a lower MBA when they can get a guy who has decent experience and an elite MBA?

    At any rate-- same applies with a career in medicine, etc.

    However, would I for one MINUTE spend that kind of dough on a liberal arts degree or even a Masters in something like HR? Erm, no.

    As much as I have a pipe dream of going to culinary school I would never take out loans to pay for an education at say the CIA when the bulk of chefs will not come out making the kind of dough to minimize that kind of debt.

    Student loan debt to me is an investment. Federal backed loans are not predatory-- for the most part if you make an IBR payment for 25 years they will be cancelled. If you become disabled 100% they can be cancelled, if you work in certain public service roles a good chunk of them can be wiped away-- if you die your estate does not need to pay them off. I think that is pretty fair in case your investment does not work the way you imagined. Private loans? Most are scummy and many can be very predatory.

    But like I said, you would not catch me with a tremendous amount of student loan debt for a BS in Psychology, and then a Masters in Social Work-- just because realistically the earnings potential has to match the cost of the loans and make sense to carry that kind of debt load.
     
  8. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I know that this is impossible but I'd like to offer those students a deal:

    We'll forgive the debt if you give up your degree. You send back your diploma. We erase your file. Zero credits. Zero references. We never heard of you. Blank slate for both parties.

    Would any of them take that deal?
     
  9. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Touche! I love it.
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Do the students get their four years back too?
     
  11. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Only if they have an educatectomy from their brains.
     
  12. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    That would hurt!
     
  13. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    They absolutely would. For example, many recent law school graduates, who are now facing repayment of six-figure debt while struggling to find jobs in the low five figures, would jump at that opportunity.

    One law student at Boston College explicitly proposed a similar deal to the law school administration last year:

    Boston College did not accept the offer.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2011
  14. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Apparently, some people here think that all of the unemployed and underemployed recent college graduates value their degrees more highly than their debt. But that's not how it is.

    Here is the situation, as the affected graduates perceive it:

    -- if you don't go to college, you will be advised to go flip burgers at McDonald's, because you won't qualify for a good job. But at least you won't have student loan debt.

    -- if you do go to college, you still won't be able to find a good job -- and you will be advised to go flip burgers at McDonald's anyway. And in this case, you *will* be burdened by student loan debt.

    So if you could "send back" your degree in return for debt forgiveness, you wouldn't lose anything, because your degree had no employment value anyway. And elimination of your debt is a clearly a win. So yes, this hypothetical deal (degree exchange for debt forgiveness) would be perceived as an attractive option by many people.

    I think it would be great if colleges did offer this money-back guarantee.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2011
  15. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    On a somewhat similar note, two law profs at Yale (the country's top-rated law school) recently proposed that law schools should refund 50% of tuition to law students who elect to drop out after their first year.

     

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