Clayton College of Natural Health

I know this school is related to the Dr. Clayton family of schools, but they seem to have earned a decent reputation with the alternative health crowd.

Any opinions?


www.ccnh.edu

 

Wellllll...

It depends on who you ask. I am friends with a number of people in that field, and the general consensus is that the program is not a particularly good one educationally.

Additionally, their accreditation is completely fraudulent. One is run from the home of an individual whose sole qualification is having graduated from Clayton. The other is operated out of the back of a health food store.

Also, as far as I know, there isn't a single state that licenses naturopaths that allows Clayton grads to qualify.

So I could not under any circumstances recommend it if you're looking for credibility... and holistic medicine is an important and growing realm where credibility is really important to acceptance and success of the field.

 

Naturopathy is real popular out here in the California Bay Area, especially the Berkeley area, and Clayton advertises in several of the alternative medicine papers. They seem to be well respected as far as naturopaths go.

 

Is this the same 'Clayton' family of schools that used to operate as the American International Open University? Later Clayton College..

 

No...I believe Lloyd Clayton is affiliated with Chadwick University, ACCIS, American Institue of Holistic Theology, and some others that I cannot remember at this time.


Any help?

 

Clayton Grads don't claim to be physicians, but rather holistic health consultants. I understand that there is "BEEF" between Clayton and the few colleges that are fully accredited. Part of the argument is that Naturopaths don't diagnose, but rather consult. I think it would be neat if they could achieve GAAP accreditation.



How likely is that?

 

I would be thunderstruck. If it happens, it will be because DETC is dumb enough to buy into the Clayton argument. I hope they don't, because there are Clayton grads treating cancer, Clayton grads offering diagnosis and treatment of serious illness, Clayton grads holding themselves out as qualified primary care physicians.

The song that Clayton sings is simply an obfuscation to legislators to try and prevent them from passing laws to license and regulate naturopaths.

Clayton is NOT respected by any legitimate naturopath. I know the president of several of the state Naturopathc Associations, they take a very dim view of Clayton, Westbrook, and American Institute of Holistic Theology. This group of unaccredited schools with substandard curricula (all operate in states with lax school licensure) make tons of money, and pay lobbyists to try and defeat licensure laws that would ensure that naturopaths are qualified at what they do and can pass appropriate licensure exams.

I did some work a year ago for a Massachusetts legislator, and turned up literally hundreds of examples of Clayton grads (and other unaccredited grads) doing exactly what Clayton says they don't do -- diagnosing and treating medical conditions.

The reason people think Clayton is legitimate is because they spend a gazillion dollars advertising, and have snazzy ads. I have spoken with a number of Clayton grads, and it's clear that the Clayton curriculum does not prepare the students with appropriate training in biochemistry, physiology, or any of the underlying knowledge that a health care provider needs to have in order to understand what's going on with someone and how to help them.

As for Clayton grads not diagnosing, that's pure bunk. Think about it... Bob Potatohead is not going to go to someone calling themself "Dr. So-and-so" and claiming to be a naturopathic physician without an expectation that the "Doctor" will be qualified to diagnose and treat. Almost no one goes to a doctor because they're healthy and feeling fine, and want "consultations"... they go because they have a problem. If the Clayton grad doesn't diagnose, he or she can't treat. If s/he relies on someone else's diagnosis, that's terrible medicine. If s/he offers "consultation" on a condition without doing a proper diagnostic workup, that's dangerous.

People have died at the hands of unqualified naturopaths; there's a case in western North Carolina now where one of these guys told the mother of a six-year-old child that his "consultations" had cured the child's diabetes, and the child no longer needed it. The mother took the child off insulin. The child died.

Don't get me wrong; I am a very strong supporter of naturopathic medicine. But, like any other medical specialty, it requires proper training, independent examinations to ensure at least basic competence, licensure so that the state can ensure a reasonable standard of practice. The states that have done this have excellent and thriving holistic medical communities. The states (of which California is one) that have not have a whole bunch of people with substandard educations holding themselves out as physicians capable of treating illness. Maybe 10% of these bogus naturopaths actually act within the scope of not diagnosing and not prescribing.

If you are seeking a quality education in holistic medicine, there are few options right now, and none that I know of available completely by DL. This country *needs* good holistic physicians, either naturopaths, or MDs/DOs/DCs with a strong holistic focus. Clayton and its brethren are not the answer.

 

OK

I'M sold

 

Hey, Darren...

Depending on what your particular area of interest is, there may be some other options. I'm actually not up on who is offering what, but there are some DL bachelor and master's programs with a focus on nutritional medicine, and Vermont College (now part of Union Institute and University) has an excellent holistic studies curriculum focusing on a number of the same aspects of holistic medicine (minus the clinical medicine portion) that you'd find at, say Bastyr or National, two of the four legitimately accredited naturopathic schools.

I remember hearing about several others, but maybe one of the other regulars here can help you out with more details.

 

Naturopathy

With regard to credible holistic and naturopathic learning, perhaps, one may include programs of study in New Zealand and Australia.

I am particularly refering to the University of New England (Armidale), which has an articulation agreement (I believe) with a small college (whose name escapes me at the moment) in order to offer degrees in holistic health, naturopathy and herbalism. Given that Australian universities are GAAP by definition, those degrees would be far more credible for someone who wishes to be a Holistic Practitioner/Naturopathic Consultant (as opposed to a Licensed Physician).

KKA

 

all the same family. run from an office on Magnolia Ave. in Birmingham, AL and for years, not sure now, could not enroll students in alabama.

 

Thanks for all of the input guys.....

Although I am interested in alternative healing methods, I don't see myself pursuing any studies in that area (until I am done with the Touro PhD).

If you guys have not noticed from previous posts, I tend to be a fan of the little guy. For about a year I was very intrigued with Clayton, and was settled on advising my wife to pursue her studies there. Since, however, I have advised against it.

When she finishes her MSW, I will be asking for guidance for a health related PhD that compliments social work, as well as body work. Right now Touro is in the lead in this regard also.

My goal is to Move to Florida, so maybe I will attempt to get into Nova's DO program.


Anyway.....Thanks again

 

Naturopathy and FLorida

DCROSS,

If you are planning to move to Florida you can forget about attending any health related program that is'nt fully regionally accredited. Florida's laws are very stringent and in fact I don't believe that they license naturopathy any longer.

 

Is the School of Natural Health licensed by Alabama? Chadwick is licensed by Alabama. I'm an MBA graduate of Chadwick University. I have advanced professionally due to my degree and am a member of 2 prestigious organizations for financial and business career persons.

Is AICS (the computer school) now DETC approved? Will the fact that Chadwick and AICS are "moving up" help the reputation of those who graduate from the School of Natural Health?

 

The school is approved by Alabama. I was thinking that the success of the other schools would help Clayton's image, but then there is the bias against "alternative healing" in this country. People like Dr. Stephen Barrett continue to criticize everything but "MD" medicine, while ignoring the problem with allopathic medicine: the fact that over 100,000 people die each year as a result of medical error. The same critics who lash out at Chiropractic or Naturopathic medicine will be glad to tell us about the relatively few deaths that result from these modalities, but fail to address the problems that exist within allopathic medicine, for fear of backlash from the AMA.

 

DCROSS,

The primary issue relates to appropriate levels of standards of care that protect patients from harm. Many nonregionally acrredited schools of naturopathy do not provide the scope of coursework to develop practitioners who can appropriately diagnose and treat patients. Nor do they provide the clinical supervision and internships that prepare students for diagnostic and treatment of patients with a myriad number of physical conditions.

This fact necessitates strong regulation of this field due to the need to protect patients' welfare, and perhaps their lives. The potential for signficant harm and even death emanating from inapproriate diagnosis, intervention and not being aware of one's scope of expertise and limitations, can lead to devastating consequences for patients as well as major legal consequences for those who are not adequately qualified to provide such treatments.

 

While simon is always motivated to help others make wise DL choices he has missed the opportunity to promote the University of Bridgeport (just around the corner from you, isn't it simon?) that not only offers programs with non-traditional residency requirements - including naturopathic medicine - but it also offers a Masters program in Nutrition offered entirely online. (c'mon simon, you can't leave it up to Massachusettseans to do the bragging for you Connecticutteans )
Jack

 

Simon,


I fully understand the need for regulation in the health care industry, but my comments relate to the bias that exists against fully regulated health-diagnosing modalities that require a rigorous clinical and science based education from an RA school.

MDs generally will downplay anything that does not support their philosophy of treatment, which is, "Let me give you the medicine that will remove your symptoms!" I even had an MD tell me that the studies that support chiropractic are biased. When if asked if he was biased, he said, "Of course not, our treatments are based on science." I would be interested to see the percentage of patients who die as a result of specific modalties. The comparison would be fascinating.

I guess death is a cure for many ailments.

 

While it's a good thing that your Chadwick MBA has helped you advance, it is most likely a fluke that the business and professional associations (if they requre MBAs for entrance) permitted you to join; they most likely don't realize that Chadwick is an unaccredited, substandard program.

AICS is, unfortunately, DETC approved. I believe that this reflects extremely poorly on DETC, rather than reflecting well on AICS. The school advertised its fraudulent accreditation, willfully and intentionally deceiving prospective students, until the very day it was approved. Not the sort of ethical behavior that should be reinforced, yet DETC chose to ignore that fact, probably at least in part because they wanted the revenues that would come from AICS.

Chadwick's application to DETC has been bounced at least once, maybe twice. As far as I know, they've not reapplied. And they have been following the same sleazy Clayton technique of using a fraudulent accreditor... their current accreditor doesn't even have its own website, operating from an Angelfire page, and the building it supposedly is in, on the 10th floor, does not appear to be a commercial building at all, most likely somebody's apartment.

I cannot in any way agree that Chadwick's reputation is "moving up"; state licensure and "approval" in Alabama is an automatic thing, and therefore has no meaning whatsoever... which is why several of the worst mills in the country have post office box addresses in the state, while being run from elsewhere.

As I said, it's good that you've found some utility for the degree, but please don't mistake it for a real MBA, because it definitely is not equivalent.