In pursuit of the degree

Knowing what I know of the American education system, the pursuit of a non-RA degree seems somewhat foolish. To invest the time and money required to achieve a degree that does not meet a national standard for university education seems like a waste of time and money.

Although the American regional accreditation system is somewhat lax compared to quality control systems in Canada, Australia and the UK, the very fact that a university is not regionally accredited says something about the institution... it's no good. Maybe it's not a degree mill, but it sure is a lot closer to one than RA institutions.

There seems to be a very strong correlation between DL and non-RA schools. And let's face it, DL education is easier than B&M education. The work-load is less, there is less interaction, less accountability, less quality control, more leniency, etc...

If you're going to pursue DL, at the very least, get a degree for an accredited school.

 

I agree... almost.

I disagree that DL is "necessarily" easier than B&M... in fact, I might suggest that it is more difficult (less support).

At Universities that offer their full-time programs via DL or are careful to maintain very comparable standards, I don't see how you can suggest that the DL program is easier.

However, in the United States a large number of DL programs are aimed at the "quick and easy" credential market (accelerated, abbreviated, not too difficult, non-traditional/academic assessment, etc.).

I am sure such a market exists in other countries but the quality assurance structure in other countries greatly limits the extent to which this market is served.

 

Whoa. Bad experience?

Stats, please.

We all know there are degree mills out there, but there are also a lot of good DL programs.

It's misleading to generalize about DL experiences: "less work, more leniency, less quality control," etc. In my opinion, once one has found a good school (I prefer RA's myself), one had best get ready to work harder than students in the shelter of a B&M. It takes a lot of personal drive and initiative to complete a college degree without the benefit of classroom discussions and face to face meetings with profs. And try rounding up a mentor/thesis committee--and coordinating an on-going dialogue with them--via phone or e-mail and tell me it's less demanding than a B&M experience!

So, do you intend to prove your assertions, or are you just needing to vent a little?

 

Define "good". Is there only one process that results in an educated person?

Thank heaven we're here to compare and contrast higher education around the globe, and making the world safe for regionally-accredited education, as if it needed our help... ;-)

Cheers,

Dave

 

Proof

As Mr. Spock of Star Trek fame once said:

"If I drop a hammer in a positive gravity, I do not have to hear it hit the ground to know it has fallen." (Or something similar to that).

Respected RA B&M institutions that offer DL programs ensure that the quality of their DL programs are very high because of the fact that they are respected RA B&M institutions.

You can rest assured that Harvard Extension School programs are the highest-quality DL programs available without even assessing the program (see the Mr. Spock quote above).

For a respected RA B&M institution (i.e., Harvard, Yale, MIT, Princeton, CalTech, NYU) to offer a DL degree, it has to stick its neck out. That is why most respected RA B&M institutions do not offer DL programs. To maintain the highest standards of quality control is not easy and the program usually requires some residency to maintain legitimacy.

Exclusively DL "universities" that have no proctored exams, residency, lab work, tutorials, presentations, etc., cannot maintain quality of their programs. The degrees are "weak".

Here is an example: I have a BA(Hons), MSc and am almost finished my PhD. All top-ranked Canadian B&M schools. What is to stop me from hooking up with a couple of other buddies in California, incorporating a "university", setting up online or correspondence courses and granting degrees in the State of California for profit? Nothing. Watch the suckers come... and you know they will.

Sure, I will make them read certain chapters of books... hold online tutorials... mail out examinations... assign papers.... anything they want... I will be generous with my marking (nothing less than a B+ for all!) They will get their PhD and be happy to call themselves "Doctors" of this or that...

DL is one of the most profitable businesses you can get into. No overhead, no accountability...

Of course, there are some top quality DL providers out there that have been at it for many years. But rest assured, you'll have to sit yourself in a proctored classrom and write exams for all you're worth... and pay the occassional visit so your professors know you exist and are serious about education.

For the rest of you... each to his own.

 

Scott,
I really would like to reply to your assertions, but................I try to devote my time to those people who have some concept about that which they speak. You may quote Mr. Spock, but I doubt that you have the intellectual acuity he had........and remember, he was a figment of someone's imagination.

 

Once again it seems that Scott jumps in and wants to stir the pot based on a baseless opinion.

John

 

Re: Proof

First, you'll have to ask yourself a few questions about whether you have what it takes to start a school: "Do I like people?" "Do people like me?" "Do I have what it takes to succeed in higher education?" "Am I just another arrogant fool posting messages on the Internet who thinks he's smarter than everyone else?"

Second, you'll have to organize your school.

Third, you'll need to go through the California state approval process:

http://www.cpec.ca.gov/

Finally, you might consider organizing your school in another (easier) state. ;-)

Cheers,

Dave

 

Well Scott,

An my native ancestors would say, you-makum-sensum... which is a lot more than can be said for the majority of the posters.

You should post more often and break-up the insanity.

 

Can you say, "flamebait?" I knew you could...

 

Good call Gary. The Scott and Ken flamebait show is spreading all over deegreeinfo. Now that is what I call mature behavior on their part.

 

Mature behavior... flamebait... this is coming from a fellow who actually tries to compare a British university ranked #1 in teaching quality by the financial times with TESC.

Can you say... double-standard

 

Yeah, what Ken, errr, Lewchuk, errr WalterRogers, errr Jako, err Bugs Bunny said!



Tom Nixon

 

This conclusion comes from someone who claims to have taken *one* DL course.

Tracy<><

 

I have some learning and teaching experience in both B&M and DL courses. It seems that DL courses are generally not easier than B&M courses because students in the latter case can generally get tips and hints for the examinations but DL students do not have such privilege (as the exam. papers are not set by DL tutors). Of course, there are exceptions.

 

Another reason why DL (online) courses might even be more time-consuming (or perhaps challenging) than B&M courses is the increased level of interaction between the facilitator and students. For example, in the most recent section of marketing that I taught for University of Phoenix Online there were just over 1,900 postings in the classroom and learning team areas for a class of twelve students over a five week term.

Cheers,

Dave
([email protected])

 

Why doesn't he have the courage to post with his real name, which is Ken Lewchuk? He keeps posting as Ken, Lewchuk and WalterRogers, etc. Are his balls getting smaller or what?

 

Yes, "Ike", why doesn't he use his full name?

 

My name is Ike Okonkwo and most posters in this forum and AED are aware that. I have never used any other name to post here. Au contraire, Monseur Lewckuk has posted here as Ken Lewchuk, Ken, WalterRogers, Jacko, etc. Few weeks ago, when Ken was posting here as WalterRogers, he denied ever knowing who Ken Lewchuk is. Ken wants us to believe that the names belong to multiple personalities. This medical condition is known as Multiple Personality Syndrome in cyberspace.

 

Whew. My bet is Dissociative Identity Disorder, in the "300s" of the Dewey-Decimal-like sytem of the DSM-IV. Multiple identities or personalities, which recurrently take control of behavior. As I recall, though, the individual identities are often in conflict with each other, which sort of leaves Johnny Reincarnation out in the cold. All of his blitherings sounds pretty much the same to me.
Otherwise, the criteria are dead-on.

(Incidentally, my first exposure to the DSM-IV.. or to Abnormal Psychology in general.. was while studying for the Excelsior Abnormal Psych exam. That was also my last exposure to it.. and I defy any undergraduate psych student from any bricks & mortar college, from either side of the Atlantic, to go head-to-head with me on the subject matter. Takers can find me here, using my real name.)


Dennis Madarang
(BSHS, Thomas Edison State College)