U. of Pretoria--I'm close to committing there

Well, I've been in touch again with the dean of the theology faculty/professor of practical theology, and I'm very close to enrolling for a MTh degree in Celtic Christianity. What I would like to do is sudy Celtic church history, theology, and poetry/music/liturgy, and also possibly incorporate a creative component into this. I have received tentative approval of this plan.

Does anyone know what the U. of Pretoria MTh costs now? They've got a newly-designed website, and I can't find the cost of postgraduate degrees on there.

 

Michael,

Good to receive this update about your on-going search. I also continue to bear Pretoria's department of practical theology in mind as I look toward doctoral research.

By the way, I just heard back from Free State today. They expressed an enthusiastic willingness to work with me as a non-resident doctoral student. They've requested that I provide them a bit more information about my proposed research topic. So, we'll see what comes of that.

Please keep us posted.

Cory Seibel

 

Cory,

That's great news! I've found the people at Free State to be very helpful and cooperative.

 

Seibel tell me more...

this U of Pretoria...would it accept philosophers as well as theologians ? I have been reading you on the thred sites of my UofW, L site and already I have come to feel that your opinion is more than just a bit 'educated and informed' - it has a vitality that I need to continue to sprak whatever enthusiasm I may have left in this distance/research enterprise...very interested in your work ethic as well so if it is NOT too much of a burden could you share more information...thanks - imperoo

 

Imperoo,

Thank you for your complimentary words. I'm pleased to have the opportunity to be of assistance to you. The University of Pretoria to which we refer here is most certainly in the top-most tier of South African universities. Furthermore, at a time when institutions in the South African higher education system are beginning to experience some wide-spread changes as a result of the larger process of social transformation going on in that country, the University of Pretoria is among a small handful of institutions that, in light of the government's stated plans, currently possess the highest level of institutional stability. I think it is fair to say that the Univ of Pretoria is a reputable institution, not only within the South African academic community, but globally as well; it enjoys strong ties with excellent universities in other corners of the world. By the way, Pretoria is the largest residential university in South Africa, and in recent years has become a major player in distance education, as well.

The conversation that has gone on here with reference to non-residential theology degrees at Pretoria is in light of email correspondence that Michael and I have conducted with represetatives of the faculty of theology. They seem willing to accomodate us. In fact, while the faculty of theology's website advertises uniquely distance-based master's and doctoral programs in Church history and Old Testament, they seem willing to enroll distance learning students in other theological disciplines, as well.

Now, unfortunately, I can't say what the department of philosophy's attitude is toward distance students. I really have no basis for submitting an opinion here. However, I would encourage you to check this out for yourself. Here is the link for Pretoria's philosophy department.

http://www.up.ac.za/academic/philosophy/

Perhaps you could email them and ask whether or not a distance-learning arrangement would be possible.

I hope this is helpful to you. Thanks again for your kind words.

Cory Seibel

 

Re: Seibel tell me more...

Pardon me for barging in...
The head of the Pretoria Dept. of Philosophy is Prof. A.J. Antonites, a very friendly guy who will undoubtedly answer an email inquiry about DL PhD study in his department. They are apparently willing to offer a 100% non-residential research doctoral study program to the right person although it's important to point out that they have never done this before - they have no experience with DL in that department. Long ago, in a galaxy far, far, away (oops, sorry, that was Star Wars) Prof. Antonites offered such a position to me (along with the ability to take any prerequisite courses by DL also) but I was too busy falling out of love with philosophy to take him up on his offer. Give it a shot. BTW, it might go over a bit better if your specific interests coincide nicely with his, or someone in his department. Good luck,
Jack

 

I have just complete my registration in the Computer Science PhD program at the University of Pretoria (Thanks God). Till now the stuff are excellent and helpful. They are much better than UNISA's staff. Hope you all the success.
Regards

 

Interesting. We had another poster who chose U. Pretoria for Computer Science Phd. See this thread.

 

Michael,

As soon as you get admitted to the MTh program, be sure to come on over and join us in the Christchurch Research Fellowship at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChristchurchFellowship/

We would welcome and value your participation.

Cory
CRF Moderator

 

Michael,

My interaction with the Practical Theology department at Pretoria has heated up considerably. They have shown real interest in my research topic, and a highly-respected member of faculty has volunteered to supervise my research, should I be approved for admission.

Free State looks very promising. They also have shown real interest in my research topic. However, I think that I would be likely to choose Pretoria over Free State for various reasons.

Anyhow, you and I could very likely end up student-peers in the same department in due time.

Cory Seibel

 

Is the UP theology programs more respected than other S. African schools? Specifically University of Zululand? They offer grad and postgrad programs in theology etc...Aren't they all accredited by the same gov. agency SAQA
help me out!!!

 

I don't know anything about theology programs, but in general the Universities of Pretoria and Zululand are at opposite ends of the scale. Pretoria is the largest traditional contact university in the country, and one of the most successful. Zululand is so weak that it is targeted to be refocused to provide vocational training. See this thread: South African university merger proposals.

Not coincidentally, Pretoria is an historically-advantaged (i.e. white) institution and Zululand is an historically-disadvantaged (i.e. black) institution. So there are many sensitivities surrounding this, and these are currently playing themselves out.

It's really not appropriate to say that any of these universities are accredited by SAQA, since SAQA has not fulfilled the implied quality assurance role.

 

The two primary figures on Zululand's theology faculty, Arthur Song and Bobbie Loubser, are internationally respected, first-rate scholars. Beyond that, however, Zululand simply cannot begin to compare with Pretoria. In saying this, I mean no disrespect to the folks at Zululand.

Pretoria simply is one of the most well-respected theology faculties in South Africa (and the Southern Hemisphere, for that matter). I think it is fair to say that, along with Natal, UNISA, Potchefstroom, Stellenbosch and (probably) Free State, they belong to the highest tier of South African theology faculties (and certainly rank as one of the top three of the six I cite here). Pretoria's faculty is at the leading edge of theological research in South Africa. Their doctoral graduates hold high-ranking positions of influence in theological faculties throughout South Africa (something Zululand simply cannot boast). In the United States, where I reside, as well as in Europe, several Pretoria graduates hold faculty positions (also something Zululand hasn't achieved). In addition, they have established links to such well respected American seminaries as Princeton Theological Seminary.

I have no doubt that the folks at Zululand are a class act. However, I believe that Pretoria is a world-class act.

Cory Seibel

 

It's really not appropriate to say that any of these universities are accredited by SAQA, since SAQA has not fulfilled the implied quality assurance role.
--------------

ok I understand that UP is more respected, and much larger, and whiter, but does this mean that UNIZUL is not respectable? Is it a done deal that they are going to go vocational?

But what I dont understand the most is this part about SAQA, Is that a legitimate accreditation body? If it is accredited by them then doesnt that mean it is quality, even if it is not as high quality as other like UP?

 

Let the record be clear that I never said that Pretoria was better because it's "whiter."

I'm done with this thread!

 

That's not exactly what Gert said; Pretoria was a white institution for over 100 years in a system where only the white schools got money, while Zululand was a black institution in a system where only the white schools got money. Guess which one attracted the better faculty. It's not fair, but apartheid isn't; that's why they got rid of it.

Zululand is part of the South African public university system; its credentials will meet generally accepted accrediting practices just as well as Pretoria's. The difference has to do with which credentials Zululand will be given permission to confer. If Zululand isn't authorized to offer Th.D.'s, it won't offer Th.D.'s.

I don't precisely understand SAQA's role in all of this, but degrees from any South African public university should be considered equivalent to degrees from a U.S. regionally accredited school, and I believe a representative of the AACRAO has said something to this effect (Russell might refresh my memory, if he's reading this).


Cheers,

 

Before enrolling at PUCHE I did a good deal of research on the recognition/acceptance of a SA degree. Here are a few of the responses I have documented:

1) Julia Funaki, AACRAO Office of International Education Services manager, writes PUCHE is recognized by the Ministry of Education in South Africa. Thus, the degree conferred would be from a recognized institution which is comparable to a regionally accredited institution in the US.

2) Dale Gough of AACRAO responded to my inquiry stating PUCHE would be recognized institutionally as equal to regional accreditation.

3) Robert Watkins, Director of Graduate Admissions at the University of Texas-Austin, responded UT-Austin deems the South African earned doctorate to be comparable to our Ph.D. Since the school is recognized by the SA Govt., then that would make it fully comparable in our eyes to a Ph.D. awarded by an accredited university in the USA.

The criterion in all my responses was that the school be recognized by the SA Ministry of Education--and this made it on par with US RA. Since the University of Zululand has the same government recognition, the UZ degree should also be recognized as the equivalent to a US RA degree.

 

Thanks, Russell--you've really done your homework here and, speaking as someone who has South Africa on his plan B list should things go kerplop in Australia, I'm comforted by your research.

I would add one more note, in response to Tom Lahue: It is my understanding that the Zululand refocusing idea is only a recommendation, and very, very far from being a done deal. It is entirely possible that Zululand's status will not be altered at all. Time will tell.


Cheers,

 

Hello, Excuse me, Please tell me the full name of the university -PUCHE. Thanks

 

PUCHE stands for Potchefstroosme University for Christian Higher Education (or Potchefstroomse Universiteit vir Christelike Hoer Onderwys in Afrikaans).

Jeff