Can leadership be taught online

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by dlady, Jul 20, 2011.

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  1. dlady

    dlady Active Member

    I move this myself so the moderators don’t ban me :)

    One could argue, should someone tackle this topic in some kind of publication, that deep analysis of these types of case studies, pulling out situation and leader characteristics, balanced again modern leadership classroom 'theory', might provide a much richer tapestry of dialog in the classroom.

    Your bigger question is a good one, can reading a book really make you a better leader.
     
  2. major56

    major56 Active Member

    As former military officers David, you Army and me Marine, we already know that the answer is no (e.g., merely reading a book); however reading can be a constructive part and ongoing reinforcement in understanding what leadership is and is not. I’d suggest the following book as an excellent reading resource as regards leadership …

    David H. Freedman, Corps Business: The 30 Management Principles of the U.S. Marines. New York: Harper Business, 2000.

    “Only three things happen naturally in organizations: friction, confusion, and underperformance. Everything else requires leadership.” — Peter Drucker
     
  3. PilgrimPastor

    PilgrimPastor New Member

    I am one of those former Marine SNO's and now a Pastor. You can't teach leadership from a book alone BUT the myth that some are just born leaders and that leadership can't be taught is just that; a myth. I used to teach at a junior NCO academy and have mentored young pastors. You can't manufacture effective leaders but you can surely teach a potential leader how to lead... The Marine Corps has been doing that for more than two centuries. Semper Fi
     
  4. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    I don't think it can. I think it can supplement leadership education but certainly you cannot learn to be a good leader from books...I am not sure how leaders are made. I've never seen a good enough answer to sway me to one side or the other for the question of "are leaders made or born".

    The Marines, through OCS and TBS make some of the best officers I have even served with. But, I also think a certain type of individual becomes a Marine officer or even an officer in any branch of the military. Most of them would probably be good leaders without the military leadership "training".

    Ther's certainly value in reading about what great leaders have done in the past, their methods, the way the attack a problem. The intangible is why do people follow them? Why would I be willing to die for my platoon commander? Why would be willing to get on board a SharePoint rollout when the CIO wants to?

    The thing that is missed from most leadership studies, IMHO (because I am one), is followers. You're not a leader unless someone is following you, or getting guidance from you. Why should I follow YOU?
     
  5. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    History is rife with examples of people who have had no leadership training and have led people. Led them in battle, led them in crisis, led them in boardrooms. Some are just born leaders. That would be denying human nature, human biology. Also if, as you state, "you can't manufacture a leader but you can teach a potential leader" what is the potential to be a leader? That's a God given or DNA given ability to be a leader.

    Malcolm Gladwell writes a good book, but he's not right on EVERYTHING he states.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2011
  6. emmzee

    emmzee New Member

    IMHO, some people are naturally better leaders than others, but I still think it can be taught, to a large degree. Those of us who are not as naturally gifted just have a much tougher time of it and, given the same amount of education and experience, may not hit quite the hights that someone with the same edu/experience + natural talent might achieve.
     
  7. dlady

    dlady Active Member

    I agree with all of the point above. The whole unnamed project came about when I started teaching a graduate level business leadership course. I couldn't believe the textbook and what it was focused on.

    Not that it was a bad book, but the basic theory behind it was very one sided. It focused on the process and theory of leadership. Not what it is but what it feels like. Terms like “neo-charismatic” and “nonhierarchical cross-culture participator” are used. Pictures are drawn showing pyramids and “leadership process flows” with colored boxes containing “value-risk qualifiers”. It even suggested that leadership is a dated concept and today it is the social environment and individual “zones of comfort” that produce accomplishments.

    All fine, however as you both know, there is another viewpoint that should at least be in the discussion, IMHO.
     
  8. emmzee

    emmzee New Member

    We should note that learning leadership in person isn't necessarily always better than learning from a book. The single leadership class I took for my degree (mandatory) was totally useless. All I remember is the prof drawing boxes on the whiteboard and asking inane questions, agreeing wholeheartedly with whatever answers people would give. I would've been much better off reading a good book about leadership than taking the class. (Instead of the 5 required books for the class, only one of which was of any real value.)
     
  9. NorCal

    NorCal Active Member

    You might be able to learn management online, but not leadership.
     
  10. PilgrimPastor

    PilgrimPastor New Member

    I agree in part. I agree completely that is a God-given temperament that some people have which is likely give them a proclivity toward leadership. However, if they were not raised in a home which nurtured integrity, for example, they may have a tenancy away from that trait which is needed for effective long term leadership. The Marine Corps, for example, hones leadership skill with high expectations. Some leaders are never developed because they have never been asked to perform under pressure, in a situation where others depended on them, etc.

    So, its both. You can teach leadership skills, from a book, lecture, training, etc. but it will fall largely on deaf ears to those who are not at inclined toward leadership.
     
  11. dlady

    dlady Active Member

    IMHO, many (most?) modern academic leadership courses are this way. Odd but true..
     
  12. dlady

    dlady Active Member

    I would agree and say you can study leadership online, but learning it isn't going to happen probably in any classroom or webpage..
     
  13. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    Why not? Can a student within a classroom (whether real or virtual) not be a leader? Leadership can be taught, but it does not necessarily mean that the pupil is or will be a leader. Regardless of how any class is taught, it is up to the pupil who is presented with skills on not only how those skills will be utilized, but also if those skills will be utilized.
     
  14. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    Of course - if there are no followers, then there would be no leaders. "If there are no people to lead, the leaders will follow." --Robert Kelley Kelley has an interesting book entitled "The Power of Followership" that you may want to explore, he breaks followers down by behavioral styles: Alienated, Conformist, Pragmatists, Passive and Effective. Which style do you (the reader) fall into?
     
  15. StefanM

    StefanM New Member

    Leadership is just the means through which you get other people to the things you want them to do.

    I know that often there is a distinction between leadership and management, and I would tentatively agree. Leadership is the art of managing while convincing your followers that you are not managing them.

    A problem I have with research in the field is that much of it is culturally conditioned, and "leadership" books often end up being recycled garbage from older leadership books.
     
  16. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    Don't you think that leadership abilities are, generally, learned? I believe that people are born with some predispositions, such as intelligence, but most leadership skills are often forged by a person's upbringing...through their childhood into adulthood. Experiences (good and bad), particularly during our developmental years, are instrumental as to what type of person we turn out to be; There are a plethora of examples out there as to what type of a person you turn out to be, let alone which type of a leader, depending on your childhood.
     
  17. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    "[T]here is a profound difference between management and leadership, both are important. 'To manage' means 'to bring about, to accomplish, to have charge of or responsibility for, to conduct'. Leading is 'influencing, guiding in direction course, action, opinion.' The distinction is crucial. Managers are people who do things right and leaders are people who do the right things. The difference may be summarized as activities of vision and judgement; effectiveness versus activities of mastering routines [or] efficiency" --[FONT=arial, helvetica]Learning to Lead: A Workbook on Becoming a Leader", Perseus Books / Addison Wesley, 1997.


    [/FONT]So how would you define, for example, Mahatma Gandhi or Bill Gates?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2011
  18. StefanM

    StefanM New Member

    Individuals who used their resources to accomplish their goals.
     
  19. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Not sure which one of those categories that I fall into. Whichever one is not the best, I guess. I'm more of a do what needs to be done, but not whistlening while they work type of follower. The reason I'm not a leader and not a particularily great follower (I'm a good follower) is that I don't buy into much. I've not found much, other than my family to get behind and swallow the kool-aid so to speak. I've met people, in corporations who buy in...and I am certainly not painting this is a negative way. It helps with careers, religion, the military. I cannot get behind something like the Marine Corps rule not to put your hands in your pockets. Or the fake culture of a lot of organizations. I want to...it would help me succeed. I just can't. I do the best I can, try not to ruffle too many feathers. And along the way I help other followers to do their thing with my "complains a lot schtick".

    <-----------So the numbers guy here (my MOS's in the Marine Corps) is neither a leader or a follower...kind of a floater. Not a good thing that is for sure.
     
  20. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    No college program teaches practical leadership. The point of a college or graduate leadership program is to teach the theories of, examples of and at higher levels research methods that capture the execution examples and results of good and less than wonderful leaders.

    Practical leadership learning begins the moment you begin to interact with people. Day care or backyard play with blocks, sharing, collaboration. Those with a talent for developing broad based friendship groups, and influencing people either from natural talent or by being well-adjusted through good parenting.. that's how you "learn" practical leadership.. by experience.

    Most kids start polishing leadership skills through organized sports or team competition at some level. That's why it's important to be well-rounded. But if you don't have it before you start taking it in a classroom, you're not going to get it. Leadership ability is emergent of being a decent person and its my opinion that people can sense it.

    2 cents,
    ITJD.
     

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