Ecumenical Theological Semianry

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Guest, Feb 23, 2002.

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  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What does anyone know about Ecumenical Theological Seminary in Detroit, http://www.etseminary.org. I couldn't find anything about accreditation on the site.

    Thanks,

    Jimmy
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ETS does not appear to be accredited at this time. They offer degree programs in cooperation with other RA seminaries, but also offer their own degrees. The website states that the ETS M.Div. is not accredited by ATS at this time, but makes no mention of RA. The faculty appear to have solid credentials.
     
  3. levicoff

    levicoff Guest

    Okay, let's see if I understand this . . . ETS purports to offer two (count 'em, two!) M.Div. programs. One is granted directly by ETS and is "unaccredited at this time:"

    The ETS MDiv. Program is not at this time accredited by the Association of Theological Schools. If the student is considering a specialized form of ministry, and an accredited degree is not required by his or her faith tradition, this degree may be better suited to the student's needs. In contrast to the Cooperative Program, all course work is completed at the ETS campus in downtown Detroit.

    In the other, the degree is granted by another seminary:

    The Association of Theological Schools accredits each of the cooperating seminaries and the courses taken at ETS are accredited by ATS through ETS' cooperation with them. Transcripts are maintained in the cooperating seminary. When all cooperating seminary requirements have been completed, including the appropriate residency requirements that vary from school to school, students receive their MDiv. degree from the cooperating institution.

    Ladies and gentlemen (and Jimmy Clifton, too, who always manages to bring up irrelevant, non-distance, and usually questionable programs), I have now read their web site and am delighted to provide my opinion abot this school:

    Bullshit. [​IMG]
     
  4. Craig

    Craig New Member

    If I lived in the Detroit area, and was interested in a nationally recognized and substantive M.Div., I would seriously consider the extension program offered by Ashland Theological Seminary of Ashland, Ohio. All the courses offered are accredited through the Association of Theological Schools and the Northcentral Association.

    Ashland's professors travel to Detroit each week, teach the same material taught in the classroom at Ashland, and students fulfill the same requirements for graduation.

    More information can be found here:

    http://www.ashland.edu/seminary/smdet.html

    Craig
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ecumenical and Levicoff

    Hi, all,

    Let me comment on Steve Levicoff's comments about my bringing up distance learning, etc. The reason I asked about ETS is that the pastor of First Congregational Church in Detroit received her D.Min. from ETS. I remember when I was at First Cong'l. my degree from Bethany was questioned. Yet, there seems to be a double standard at First Cong'l. This is the only reason I mentioned it. I thought someone might know something not mentioned on the web site.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Ecumenical and Levicoff

    Not to worry, Jimmy. Steve has very strong opinions regarding non-RA religious/theological institutions, and doesn't mind sharing those opinions in language that is difficult to misunderstand--even for the common street thug. But one never knows when a street thug might be misled into enrolling at a degree mill, so perhaps dialogue of this manner might facilitate a positive decision for some poor vagabond. :D

    Regarding what seems to be a double standard, it could be that ETS was approved by the church in question. Some denominations/fellowships have approved particular schools for the training of their ministers, even though the school is not RA. A few Independent Baptist groups have this policy. And it could be that Bethany was not an approved school. I don't know this to be the case, however, it is a practice among some groups.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks, Russell, for your replies to my posts. Another reason I was interested in ETS is that the minister of First Cong'l. who graduated from there has a husband who is a very well respected judge in Michigan and the minister herself, is highly respected so again, I thought ETS might be more than it states on the web site. Looking in google for Lottie Jones-Hood will show how respected the minister is.
     
  8. levicoff

    levicoff Guest

    Well, Jimmy, if you insist . . .

    You have raised a good question, so an expansion of my one-word opinion might be in order . . .

    I have a problem with a school that has a two-tier degree program - one degree offered by so-called "affiliated" schools that are legitimately accredited, and the other degree offered by the school itself.

    To say that a degree is "not accredited by ATS at this time" is, IMO, very misleading. It implies that they will or even may be accredited by ATS at some time. Frankly, I doubt that ETS has even applied to ATS or that ATS has heard of ETS.

    What is worse, however, is the statement that "the courses taken at ETS are accredited by ATS through ETS' cooperation with them [the other seminaries which are accredited by ATS]." This is where my one-word critique comes in. ("Bullshit.") Merely because an ATS-accredited seminary grants credit for an unaccredited school's course does not mean that the unaccredited school's course has been recognized in any manner (let alone accredited) by ATS. I find ETS' statement to be downright sleazy and, quite frankly, it would not surprise me if ATS were to find it legally actionable - if ATS even knew about the statement in the first place.

    My guess is that ETS is attempting to be an ecumenical urban ministry training center. (This can be construed by its presence in a major city as well as the involvement of apparently prominent African American members of the theological community.) Here in the Philadelphia area, we have a similar program which is affiliated with Geneva College (at the undergrad level) and Westminster Theological Seminary (at the grad level). However, all degrees are granted by Geneva or Westminster - the Center for Urban Theological Studies (known as "CUTS") does not grant its own degrees (as does ETS).

    Don't get me wrong - I find urban ministry studies a noble activity. But when it's accompanied by sleazy statements such as those made by ETS, it turns the program into a mill, regardless of how noble their goals might be.

    Ergo, my opinion of ETS stands. Courses accredited by ATS because they may be accepted by another ATS-accredited school? Res ipsa loquitor - in this case, the bullshit speaks for itself.
     

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