Thread: St. Gregory Nazianzen Orthodox Theological Institute

Greetings everyone,

I have been lurking for months and months and finally decided to register and post. As a little bit of background, I am from the United States and have only completed an undergraduate degree in several Western languages. It is my hope to continue my education and to possibly branch out. As I mentioned in my profile, I am interested in languages, linguistics, theology, Church history , liturgics, etc.

Now, on to my question! A year or two ago, I stumbled on the website for the St. Gregory Nazianzen Orthodox Theological Institute (which can be found here). At the time, the school was only associated with Sofia University in Bulgaria through Ignatius University, which was a cause for concern. While Ignatius does look like it has some interesting programs, I was concerned about its legitimacy.

After finding the website for SGNOTI again today, I see that the school is now part of the Universidad Rural de Guatemala, which is supposedly accredited by El Consejo de la Enseñanza Privada Superior. As most of my previous readings on this site have been about American or South African universities, I was not at all familiar with either the Guatemalan university or the organization that accredits it. Is anyone familiar with either?

While I have no plans to pursue holy orders in the Orthodox Church, I thought that the programs offered by the Orthodox Theological Institute were worthwhile as they seemed to have a wide array of topics to study.

So, can anyone point me in the right direction? Does this seem to be a legitimate school? I have looked into others (such as the one through Euclid) but have been concerned as I previously mentioned.

Thanks for your help everyone!

Messdiener

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Can’t say whether or not it is [legitimate]; that would be a matter of personal interpretation/s. However, this school doesn’t appear to be an academic recognized /accredited entity … but their website certainly spends much print space seemingly “talking” in a circle as regards affiliations and/or associations possibly as a diversion regarding its own accreditation /recognition status (?).

Major56,

Thank you for reply. Just to follow up, do you mean that the Institute or the Universidad Rural de Guatemala "doesn't appear to be an academic recognized / accredited entity"?

Thank you,

Messdiener

Originally Posted by Messdiener

Major56,

Thank you for reply. Just to follow up, do you mean that the Institute or the Universidad Rural de Guatemala "doesn't appear to be an academic recognized / accredited entity"?

Thank you,

Messdiener

My re was regarding St. Gregory Nazianzen Orthodox Theological Institute…

Originally Posted by Messdiener

Greetings everyone,

I have been lurking for months and months and finally decided to register and post. As a little bit of background, I am from the United States and have only completed an undergraduate degree in several Western languages. It is my hope to continue my education and to possibly branch out. As I mentioned in my profile, I am interested in languages, linguistics, theology, Church history , liturgics, etc.

Now, on to my question! A year or two ago, I stumbled on the website for the St. Gregory Nazianzen Orthodox Theological Institute (which can be found here). At the time, the school was only associated with Sofia University in Bulgaria through Ignatius University, which was a cause for concern. While Ignatius does look like it has some interesting programs, I was concerned about its legitimacy.

After finding the website for SGNOTI again today, I see that the school is now part of the Universidad Rural de Guatemala, which is supposedly accredited by El Consejo de la Enseñanza Privada Superior. As most of my previous readings on this site have been about American or South African universities, I was not at all familiar with either the Guatemalan university or the organization that accredits it. Is anyone familiar with either?

While I have no plans to pursue holy orders in the Orthodox Church, I thought that the programs offered by the Orthodox Theological Institute were worthwhile as they seemed to have a wide array of topics to study.

So, can anyone point me in the right direction? Does this seem to be a legitimate school? I have looked into others (such as the one through Euclid) but have been concerned as I previously mentioned.

Thanks for your help everyone!

Messdiener

On the plus side:

i) The Guatemalan University appears to be a legitimate institution in Guatemala from what little I can see (keeping in mind I do NOT speak Spanish and can only make out a few words).

ii) The St. Gregory Nazianzen Orthodox Theological Institute appears to have the endorsement of Athenagoras (Aneste) of Mexico - OrthodoxWiki who is the legitimate and canonical ruling hierarch of the Greek Orthodox Church in that part of the world.

Negatives:

i) The orthodox institute appears to offer, among other degrees, a doctorate in business administration . This is rather odd don't you think?

ii) From what I could see the Guatemalan university does NOT appear to offer a DBA. Nor could I search and find any mention on the site of the orthodox institute. These factors are making this seem reminiscent of the MIGS situation and sending up red flags.

iii) The Ruling Hierarch's endorsement does not appear to say this is one of the Greek Orthodox Church's institutions of higher education . It seems almost like the forward to a book where someone says good concept, keep up the good work. Keep in mind that I have seen many odd schismatic old catholic web sites (not connected to the legit Old Catholic Church in Europe) where some clerical type got a Papal blessing (kind of a generic thing with your name on it) saying the Pope was bestowing apostolic blessings on that church or one of its clergy. Completely meaningless in terms of the church's legitimacy or connection Rome. Obviously though, the church wanted to make it appear like Rome recognized them and was warm and fuzzy about them.

All this to say that the orthodox institute may be completely legitimate. I would proceed with extreme caution. Why not contact the Greek Orthodox Church hierarch's office. Also, contact the Guatemalan university (not whoever the institute recommends....ie learn from MIGS.....but the administrative offices or Presidents office and ask about the relationship, who issues the degrees and so on).

Let us know what you find out. If the school is unaccredited and unrecognized by the Greek Orthodox Church, it is VERY expensive.

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I noticed that school too. Adding to the plus side, if you follow OrthodoxWiki link to the Metropolis of Mexico website, it lists the OTI as a "missionary center" and has glowing description of it, and of the recent conversion of alleged 500000 members of a breakaway catholic group to GOC. I also like the rector, the triple-Dr. Archimandrite Andrew (Vujic), priest and DL affictionado extraordinaire. On the minus side - DBA? They do not appear ho have enough faculty to have "schools". Interestingly, our friend Fr. Laurent Cleenewerck (of Euclid University) is involved, and the link to St. Ignatius University still exists.

Hi

My remarks are geared to the Guatemalan school and have nothing to do with St. Gregory Nazianzen Orthodox Institute.

Caution flag: I can read Spanish enough to see that the Guatemalan University is authorized as a Private University. I assume this makes it different from a State University and thus, acceptance of its degrees MAY differ. How much difference? I do not know.

I DO know that in Panama, there is a great difference between the two categories. Private schools do not place themselves under the academic control of the (State) University of Panama and for that reason, their degrees, while "legal ", lack the same utility and recognition. Some of these "private" Panamanian schools peddle distance degrees to North Americans that are "Legal " in Panama, yet worth nothing here or there.

Although it was discussed in this forum, I forget the name of a private Costa Rican school that was offering doctorates and every kind of degree under the sun, when it was only authorized to confer three specific degrees, none higher than a Master's. I hope this Guatemalan school is not engaged in anything similar.

I did notice that many private schools that teach Spanish to foreigners in Guatemala have "validation" ties to this particular Uni. Some schools stated that if students complete their programs there they can earn credits transferable to this University - but only this one - and it was spelled out that there was no guarantee that those credits will be accepted at any other Guatemalan universities. This place seems to validate a whole host of outside programs...

I have no evidence whatsoever that unauthorized degree conferral or any other money-making sharp practice is happening here, but I would welcome comment from someone who is certain of the validity / utility of a degree from this, or any, Private Guatemalan university.

Johann

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Now I remember -

The "rogue" Costa Rican school was Universidad Empresarial. Here's the old thread:

Empresarial University

Again, I hope this Guatemalan school is FAR better. Hopefully, someone with knowledge of the recognition and value of a degree from a Private University in that country can advise us.

Johann

Johann (and everyone else),

I appreciate your input and feedback regarding this school. While it sounds like a very inexpensive option from a Church-approved school, I am cautious about putting in the time and money for something that would be otherwise worthless. My own goal is simply for the enrichment, but I had wanted my time and money to at least count for something. Also, having a proper MA or MS on the resume never hurt.

Thank you again for all of your help,

Messdiener

Johann brings up some excellent points in regard to the Private university and its standing. As well, who will actually be issuing the degrees? It does appear that these clerics are under the Greek Orthodox Church if I read the GOC site correctly and they endorse the school.

However, this school is NOT cheap. The doctorate is more than 10,000 for a research doctorate with who knows what credibility plus other fees. You can get South African options for around a third to half the price and be certain of credibility.

If the degree were in the 3-5 thousand range and endorsed by the Greek Orthodox Church it may be worth something in some areas. But ten grand....no thanks.

Garp,

My curiosity is in Eastern or Oriental Orthodox theology, liturgy, etc. It seems like such a rare thing to find by distance learning, so that's why this particular institution piqued my interest. I know there have been brief mentions here of Sofia University in Bulgaria, but I do not have the requisite background to undertake studies there. Others have also mentioned the courses at Lampeter, but the costs seem to be a bit outrageous for something that I would only be doing for "fun". Oh, well!

Messdiener

Well, regarding Orthodox theology, there's always trusty St. Stephen's Course (from Antiochan Archeparchy in North America):
Antiochian House of Studies and St. Stephen's Course | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese
They even have further degree study arrangements (with Balamand University in Lebanon for Master's). As I understand, the course graduated a number of convert clergy who subsequently got ordained in the Archeparchy, so 100% legit.
Holy Trinity Seminary (ROCOR) (New York State accredited) offers online Certificate for laymen:
Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary - Academics
Legitimate, demanding, accredited, and "Jordanville" is certainly well-known.
ROCOR's Pastoral School of Chicago and Mid America Eparchy (unaccredited but Bishop-endorsed):
Welcome to The Pastoral School

Finally, it is not at all clear that St Gregory Institute is not worthy of consideration. It is new and bears some signs of a personal fantasy school. On the other hand, it may work in the end - one would think that the person who attended 5 of the top 10 most-discussed schools on this forum knows a thing or two about DL. For me, a picture of His Exellency Kyr +ATHENAGORAS ordaining some SGNOTI graduates to Holy Priesthood would go a long way towards addressing doubts.

I am actually finishing up year 2 (out of 3) with the St. Stephen's program. It is old school correspondence. They send you a reading list, and then about 3 months later, you get a set of "exams," which are basically paper topics. You complete them, submit them to "instructors" and wait for scores. To graduate, you also have to spend one week per year (either the week before or after Labor Day) at Antiochian Village in Pennsylvania. So 6 Units (2 per year) and 3 weekly residencies. You must also do a project each year, for a total of 3.

Once you complete the certificate program, you can enroll in the MA in Applied Theology with Balamand Univ (as mentioned in Stanislav's post). It is another year, and you have to write a supervised thesis.

You can also continue on with a DMin with the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, if you so desire.

The overall course is totally legit. The traditional St. Stephen's course does not give a degree itself, and was originally designed as a training program for Deacons in the Antiochian Orthodox Church (in the American Archdiocese). It is also used to allow clergy from other denominations, who convert to Orthodoxy (and possess a MDiv) to be eligible for ordination as a priest. Of course, no ordination (as a Deacon or Priest) is guaranteed by completing the course, but it does make one eligible, if an Orthodox Christian, and with the blessing of the Diocese Bishop.

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Stanislav offers some excellent suggestions.

A couple more for consideration:

Institute for Orthodox Studies - Cambridge offers a very interesting two year certificate in Orthodox studies by distance learning. Kallistos Ware is a former chairman. Looks like it costs around 2000 pnds for the course.
IOCS - History

University of Joensuu (Finland) - offers a very affordable credential of some kind (not sure what it is) in Orthodox Theology. Looks like it is offered in English and it is also distance learning. Orthodox Theology

Thanks, everyone, for filling me in further on other opportunities. Unfortunately, many of them became non-options for me for a number of reasons. I don't want to complain about them, but I'll post some brief reasons why for others, who may be lurking or are considering the same schools and may be in the same situation(s) I am.

Regarding the Antiochians' St. Stephen's Course, I considered this distance learning opportunity for months and months. I read up on it online, corresponded with the course's director (an Antiochian deacon, as I recall), and discussed it with others, who were familiar with course and/or had taken it themselves. The "old school correspondence" that cdhale mentions seemed to be fine, but my hangup was the residence requirements. The timings for the residencies were highly inconvenient for a teacher . To take off 1-2 weeks at the beginning of the fall term to fly out to Pennsylvania were just an impossibility, especially for me as I had just started with a new district when I was looking into this course. When I asked the director if it would be possible to do some alternate or extra work to make up for the residencies, I was told that I could complete the correspondence first and put off the residencies until later when I had more time (ie. I still had to do them but not every year like some people do). If I could find a way to get around the residencies (or to do them at a more convenient time), I would still love to do this course!

As for the ROCOR courses (through Holy Trinity and the Pastoral School of Chicago and Mid America Eparchy), it seems that one is required to be an Orthodox Christian, which I am not. If I recall correctly, Holy Trinity Seminary had made this clear on their website, and the Pastoral School in Chicago had told me so in their correspondence. In fact, the priest who answered my letter said that he would be more than happy to talk to me again after I converted. =(

Finally, I'm still interested in the two opportunities that Garp mentioned. The Cambridge courses, of course, look very professional, and I am still tempted to take them. Has anyone taken the courses? Are they worth the higher price (compared to Antiochian or Finnish Orthodox courses)?

The Finnish courses themselves look fine, but I am unsure exactly what credential, degree, or award is being given. This isn't clear to me at all. Also, another questionable feature of the Finnish is course of studies is that I'm not sure about the legitimacy of the so-called "University of Joensuu". I've found a "University of Eastern Finland" that has a campus in Joensuu, but I can't tell if it is the same thing as the University of Joensuu or not. Can anyone know any more about this particular course?

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I'm going to be making some calls to verify this, but I believe that the residency for St. Stephen's Course are for those preparing for ordination only. Also, recheck with the Orthodox Pastoral School. A baptismal certificate is only required if one is going for ordination prep. At least that's what the site said. Perhaps a misunderstanding on the pirest's part that you spoke to?

I'll let you know what I find out today about St. Stephen's Course, if you'd like to know. I'm about to go to Korea for a couple years, so I'm hoping that I'm right about the residency.