Value of US degrees and the Open University UK

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Dennis, Feb 19, 2002.

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  1. Dennis

    Dennis New Member

    Recently the Open University in the UK has finished its evaluation of US degrees for the purpose of transfering credits towards a bachelor degree from the OU.
    http://www3.open.ac.uk/credit-transfer/previous/index.htm
    (click on "Overseas study" at the bottom)

    Accordingly:

    -You get no academic credit whatsoever for an US Associate degree.

    -You get 120 points at level 1(first year in the bachelor program) and 120 points at level 2(second year) for an US RA bachelor.
    That is less than for an Australian or Canadian ordinary bachelor degree. You get for them 240 points at level 2.

    -A 2 years long US master's will get you between 60 points at level 3 + 90 points at PG level(anyone know what that means?) and 120 points at level 3 + 90 points at PG level. In comparison you get for a Canadian bachelor honours 240 points at level 3 and for an Australian bachelor honours 120 points at level 2 plus 120 points at level 3.

    I think no later than now, after reading the data above, everybody should understand why only in the US it is possible to earn a BA in 4 weeks :).


    Dennis Siemens
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2002
  2. Scott Henley

    Scott Henley New Member

    Open University

    It seems that the UK Open Universitiy is taking the Dearing Report to heart. Roughly, it is equating an American master's degree with a UK bachelor's degree with honours.
     
  3. Malcolm Jenner

    Malcolm Jenner New Member

    PG means Postgraduate, i.e. Master's. 90 points is half of a taught Master's degree.

    Malcolm S Jenner
     
  4. Yan

    Yan New Member

    Re: Open University

    As to professional degrees such as MBA, I don't see there is substantial difference in standard and depth among the US, UK and Australian MBAs. I have an US MBA and an UK MSc, and I don't really feel there is a wide gap in standard of MBA degrees between two places. In fact, the content of the MBA programs in these countries are more or less the same.
     
  5. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: Open University

    Americans somehow manage to muddle along despite having jokes instead of degrees. Our scientific research, scholarship, technological innovation and business enterprise are unsurpassed in the world. And that's the bottom line, isn't it?

    Perhaps some of you would be better advised to work to build your own countries up rather than trying to drag your competitors down. It is more effective nationalism to be proud of your own country's achievements than to be jealous of anothers'.
     
  6. Dennis

    Dennis New Member

    Re: Re: Open University

    Bill, if you meant me, then your remarks are unfounded. I'm not British or Australian or Canadian(the degrees from countries which we mainly discuss here). And to top it all, I'm a student of an (US) American college. But I think it's nothing reprehensible to discuss academic achievements in different countries, is it?

    Dennis Siemens
     
  7. Tony Schroeder

    Tony Schroeder New Member


    Looks like Lewchuk was right all along; at this rate, a US Master's will only approximate a lowly Canadian high school diploma in a few years.

    Fortunately, it appears we'll be able to get a real education soon if Athabasca earns it's lowly regional accreditation. :)


    Tony
     
  8. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Re: Re: Open University

    Come on now Bill, don't muddy the waters with facts!


    Bruce
     
  9. WalterRogers

    WalterRogers member

    True... after I get my 4 week degree (or like program) and still haven't learned anything nor have a credential that is respected, I can always wrap myself in the flag and say "it is OK, cause it is 'Mercn".

    Honestly, as an American I am ashamed that, instead of admitted that British academic standards are higher overall and having a goal of beating them in 5 years, we wrap incompetence* in our flag and claim it superior... no wonder we lack respect in some parts of the world.

    *Note: I don't believe our best, our top schools which do lead the world in many disciplines are the issue... it is the great number of accelerated, 4 wk, profit oriented schools which are the issue.
     
  10. Re: Open University

    Rubbish!

    The cited web-site does not discuss equivalence of degrees. It discusses the number of credits that can be transferred. Many US universities will allow only 9 or 12 semester-credits to be transferred from another university into a Master's program. This is not because they believe that another university's program is equivalent to only 9 or 12 credits, but because they want a substantial part of the coursework completed at the institution that will award the degree.

    OU is allowing up to 90 postgraduate points to be transferred from a US Master's program. They also allow only 90 postgraduate points to be transferred from a Master's program at another UK university.

    So, I would correct Henley's statement as follows:

    • Roughly, it is equating an American master's degree with a UK master's degree.
     
  11. I was interested (but not surprised) to see that the guidelines for South African qualifications are essentially the same as those for Australian qualifications:

    • 240 points at Level 2 for a South African ordinary Bachelor's.
    • 120 points at Level 2 and 120 points at Level 3 for a South African Honours Bachelor's.
    • 90 postgraduate points for a South African Master's.
     
  12. Tony Schroeder

    Tony Schroeder New Member

    OK, you win.

    On behalf of all American intitutions of higher learning, I wish to admit that:

    1. American degrees, at all levels, are vastly inferior to British, Canadian, and Australian degrees, including those pesky degree mills;

    2. Regional accredidation is irrelevant because Lewchuk says so, and he doesn't have to prove it.

    Can we go back to leading the world in scholarship, technological superiority, standard of living, and individual freedom now?


    Tony Schroeder, 'merkin (not 'mercn)
     
  13. WalterRogers

    WalterRogers member

    I will grant you scholarship and technology but the median standard of living in the US is not the highest and the amount of freedom is definetly up for debate.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    For 2 years (?) in a row Canada won the UN's top standard of living (a couple of years ago). It took income and quality of life into account.

    My limited experience with the US & Canadian education systems led me to feel that Canadian education was qualitatively superior.

    Now, to Bill Dayson's point and to quote Neil Diamond ...."They're
    coming to America"...."everytime that flags unfurled......they are coming to America". That is the truth of it. The United States is a world leader in most fields. Any number of individuals from other countries come here for opportunity. Add to that a bunch of Canadians from Peter Jennings, Michale J. Fox, David Foster, Norman Jewison, Keith Morrison, William Shatner, Lorne Green, John Candy, etc. Heck a Canadian invented basketball but here it was perfected.

    As for freedom, even in a great and tolerant country like Canada they are not very tolerant. They have taken PC to excess. Christians in the US feel they are under persecution and allowed to be ridiculed in a way other groups are not (and I would agree this occurs) but in Canada it is mainstream politicans ridiculing the religious values of politican Stockton Day (party's candidate for Prime Minister) in a way that here a comedian might but not a politician.

    North


     
  15. Dennis

    Dennis New Member

    Just a thought, maybe the fact that Americans have less rigorous academic standards than some other countries and despite of this are still able to produce academic work of high quality portends that students in countries with more stringent academic standards learn things that are not absolutely necessary in order to be a good scholar or to succeed in life.

    Dennis Siemens
     
  16. Dennis

    Dennis New Member

    Re: Re: Open University

    I wish I could exclaim the same.


    OU is allowing up to 90 postgraduate points to be transferred from a US Master's program. They also allow only 90 postgraduate points to be transferred from a Master's program at another UK university.

    [/list] [/B][/QUOTE]

    Exactly here is the rub. Because the OU allows you to tranfer only 90 postgraduate points you get only 90 points at PG level for a two years Canadian master's. However, look closer at it, if you complete only the first year of a Canadian master's you get the same 90 postgraduate points. It's because the OU restricts tranfer to only 90 PG points your second year of the Canadian postgraduate degree is sort of wasted for this purpose. But now look at the US master degree in a different field of study(In the same field earns you even less credit); What do you get for the first year? That's right, 120 points at level 3. That is to say, the first year of an American master's is viewed upon as still belonging to the British bachelor's level. Only for the second year of an US master's do you get 90 PG points; It's the same as for the first year of a Canadian master degree.

    Dennis Siemens
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2002
  17. Scott Henley

    Scott Henley New Member

    Can we go back to leading the world in scholarship, technological superiority, standard of living, and individual freedom now?

    CURRENT SITUATION:

    Scholarship: Perhaps
    Technological Superiority: Long ago given up to the Japanese
    Standard of Living: Lots of countries ahead of the good ole' USA
    Individual Freedom: A thing of the past... after 9/11

    I'll place my money on the European Union...
     
  18. Tony Schroeder

    Tony Schroeder New Member

    CURRENT SITUATION:

    Scholarship: Perhaps


    Indeed!

    Technological Superiority: Long ago given up to the Japanese

    Must be why we're riding those Japanese rockets into space, controlled by Japanese software, guided by Japanese satellite guidance systems, coordinated using the Japanese-developed Internet.

    Wait - we aren't? I must've missed something here.

    Standard of Living: Lots of countries ahead of the good ole' USA

    If you say so, Scott, but Lady Liberty still lifts her lamp beside the golden door, and the huddled masses yearning to breathe free are still flocking here.

    Individual Freedom: A thing of the past... after 9/11

    Come now. In what way has your individual freedom been curtailed?

    I'll place my money on the European Union...

    I'd suggest doing it literally. That Euro is really going places!

    Regards,


    Tony
     
  19. ddcameron

    ddcameron New Member

    Dennis,

    This is such a misleading statement. As you well know, no one is stating that you can earn a BA in 4 weeks. If you have the knowledge base, earned over a period of years, you can likely get a BA in 4 weeks. I can't because I do not have the knowledge base in some key areas. But had I done a little more reading over the years it would be possible. Even so, it wouldn't be earned in 4 weeks. It would have been earned over the years preceding the four weeks.
     
  20. Dennis

    Dennis New Member

    Re: Re: Value of US degrees and the Open University UK

    David,

    I agree with you wholeheartedly and I'm able to agree with you drawing from personal experience because I'm myself currently studying by examinations.
    This sentence was meant rather ironically; that's why there is a smiley at the end.

    Dennis Siemens
     

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