RA Bachelor's, Master's, Prof. Doctorate and non-RA Ph.D.???

While perusing CV's, resume's, and websites, I have noticed numerous instances of listing regionally accredited degrees, e.g., bachelor's, master's and professional doctorate's (Ed.D., D.Min., DRE, JD, etc.), and then a non-RA/GAAP state approved Ph.D.

Have others noticed this as well, and if so, what are your perceptions?

 

Once upon a time I referenced a dynamic that I've observed in my own field (Clinical Social Work) in which Masters level Clinicians will go on to get a non-RA PhD. As they can become licensed and practice based on their MSW alone they do not really need the PhD. Why then would they do it? Well, one possible reason is that it helps with marketing their practice, especially if they're in an area with a bunch of practicing Psychologists. It might be seen as leveling the playing field in the perceptions of prospective clients. Also, Social Workers aren't noted for making the big bucks and so the generally cheaper non-RA degrees would seem attractive in that regard, especially for those who aren't as acutely aware of accreditation issues as some on this forum. I suppose that I should also mention that the person might actually learn some useful things and write a pretty good dissertation, even though it's a non-RA school.
Jack

 

Hi Russell:

I understand that more professors than you might think have two doctorates, but only advertise one; I have heard of some who actually upgrade their credential by going to a better school. As to a non RA second doctorate; I can't think of a situation where a non RA degree is more defendable. Particularly where the quality and quantity of work is good. What is anyone going to say...that you can't handle RA work, when you have a friggin doctorate from an RA school? I know personally one prof. (Ph.D in English from UCLA, I think, who went to a "weekend" school--not ABA--to study law and get a JD. I know a grad student at UCR who was getting a correspondence MBA from an electronics institute in Mississippi, while he was finishing the Ph.D. I thinkif you have a RA Ph.D. you can get any good, legal, particularly state approved, degree in addition absolutely without question and without (as Barry is bound to suggest) diluting or ruining your academic reputation. The real problem is the strange taboo in secular academics against a second doctorate (excepting, perhaps, the M.D. and J.D.) I have been told that if you apply to teach at a JC, or even a four year school, not under any circumstance to claim more than one BA/MA/PhD sequence. I think there is a current thread around here that raises the question of NOT listing academic credentials on one's vita--a reverse or negative time bomb, so to speak, what do you think?

Blessings

Craig

 

Jack: What you say is absolutely true in any profession where the requirement is a "professional" masters, like a MSW or M.Div. I am certain that you are correct in your idea concerning the cost. If one already has their job and the requisite credential, I don't see any problem with, say, a Cal Coast Ph.D. --especially if you live in the state that has approved the degree.

Craig

 

RA degrees, non-RA doctorate

Broadening this discussion a bit, I have an RA BA (University of Massachusetts at Amherst), RA MBA (Boston College), and a state-approved DBA from California Pacific. In the business world, unlike academia, doctorates are generally not required, since the MBA is seen as the terminal degree within that particular realm. I certainly list the DBA on my resume along with the two RA degrees. I have never found any so-called "dilution" effect, nor has anyone ever mentioned that perception to me or raised it as an issue in an attempt to disqualify me. (Of course, someone will chime in here that hiring managers hold it inside just long enough to snicker by the water cooler. I've been in management for 34 years and can tell you we all have better things to do. Thought I should mention it, however, to foreshadow that argument to save those who raise it the trouble.) Anyone who is confident and comfortable with their own credentials, track record, and ability to market their qualifications in interviews for executive positions need not become bogged down in the kind of paranoia that is too often advanced on this matter. Although such caveats are imaginative and speculative, there is just no substance to them that I've ever been able to detect in the real world in my own experience. I also know other with DBAs from California Pacific and, likewise, they have not encountered difficulties from "dilution" either.

 

I knew a therapist who had been a military chaplain. He had an accredited doctorate (D.Min.) but then wnet on to get a Ph.D. from Columbia Pacific University. He only ever used Ph.D. after his name. What I am assuming is that he felt the Ph.D. was more prestigious and transferable to secular situations. He liekley did not want the expense, inconvenience and possibly the level of work invovled in getting an RA one (this was obtained a few years ago prior to all the DL opportunities).

Incidentally, linking this with another thread, he insisted on being called "Dr.".

North

 

individual cases

I don't have a complete answer. It seems that people in private practice can charge higher rates as doctorates than they can as masters. So that may play a role. The counseling/social work doctorates have gotten longer and longer. It is not just the credits, but also the time in supervised counseling. Finally there is the cost. In many geographic areas the mental health counselor/social worker is not paid very well. So saving a little cash while earning a degree can be important.
I am a L alcohol and drug counselor, a Cert. rehabilitation counselor and a L. mental health counselor. If I were to open a private practice, putting a ph.d. on my name would add a few clients and a few buck to each session. I currently have copies of the first counseling credentials I earned on the wall. They have to be renewed every two years. Only one client in a decade has ever mentioned the date to me, let alone what organization it is from.
All the best!

 

Dr. Dave:

I agree with you 100%. I have my Ph.D. from Century University (a state approved New Mexico university). I have not been in the business field for as long as you- 15 years now. However, my experiences have been the same. A non RA terminal degree, from a state with a strong quality standards for higher education, does not dilute a resume with other RA degrees.

 

While I agree with you guys entirely that a good non RA doctorate, in most non-academic areas of human effort, I mean..the world, uh..life, will serve people very well, as long as there are other RA, especially RA residential degrees on the resume, we should not forget the parameters of Russell's original scenario--following an RA DOCTORATE with another non RA doctorate. My point was that I don't see any possible grounds of criticism here. Why spend thousands of extra dollars when you have already proved your point, so to speak? My question is why is there apparently a very negative view out there of having two doctorates of any kind. Is it simply a case of looking like you will never leave school and "really" get to work? The only arena that I know of where this does not seem to be the case is in Evangelical Christianity. Indeed many in that world have so many letters after their name it is, perhaps, getting a little riduculous. Education should never end, but perhaps formal, degree-seeking education, after fou or five sheepskins, should.

Please give your opinion on the "p.r." value (or lack thereof) of two or more doctorates--I really would like to know

 

Great question; I wish I had a great answer to go with it. One example does come to mind--Stacey Ake, an editor for the Philadelphia Center for Religion and Science, who holds two Ph.D.'s (both from the University of Pennsylvania): one in molecular biology, and one in philosophy. Because her main professional focus seems to be bioethics, this cocktail makes a great deal of sense and gives her street cred in both fields (though I joke with her that she should add a nonresident Th.D. to the mix).


Cheers,

 

Re: individual cases

I am a L alcohol and drug counselor, a Cert. rehabilitation counselor and a L. mental health counselor. If I were to open a private practice, putting a ph.d. on my name would add a few clients and a few buck to each session. I currently have copies of the first counseling credentials I earned on the wall. They have to be renewed every two years. Only one client in a decade has ever mentioned the date to me, let alone what organization it is from.
All the best! [/B][/QUOTE]

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I too have my CRC -- amoung other certifications/registrations. You are the first CRC I have encountered on this or any other DL newgroup. Are you in private private practice? What are your graduate degrees in and are you currently a DL student anywhere? I ask these questions because I'm wondering if and how DL as an educational medium has helped you advance our profession. I have a private disability management practice -- DISABILITY SOLUTIONS -- located in greater Nashville, Tennessee. I have one RA BS and two RA Masters degrees. I will likely transfer to Cal Coast University's Psy.D. in the next few months.

Your thoughts please.

Regards, Wes

 

The vast majority which fit this scenario (at least of those I have observed), Craig, have their credentials from non-RA institutions. I have seen numerous CV's where one listed the D.Min., Ph.D., Th.D., DRE, STD, etc., all from non-RA schools. I have seen only a small percentage, in comparison, who had a RA doctorate, then earned a non-RA doctorate--usually a D.Min.,Ed.D., DBA, DRE, followed by a non-RA Ph.D./Th.D.

On a side note, I am always amused when I see one of these guys with multiple doctorates, who have difficulty constructing a grammatically correct sentence.

I do believe that the scenario described in my original post has merit for some individuals, i.e., RA degrees (B, M, Professional Doctorate) followed by a non-RA Ph.D. Several possible scenarios come to mind:

1. One who is already established in one's profession, with RA degrees which have qualified them for the position, and the Ph.D. is more of a luxury than a necessity. Business, social work, etc.
2. One who is able to pursue a particular profession, based upon a non-RA degree, e.g., practicing psychology in California based on a state-approved Ph.D.
3. One serving in a pastorate who holds, for example, RA undergrad, grad, and D.Min. degrees, then pursues a credible non-RA/GAAP Ph.D./Th.D.---and there are a few programs which fit this description. If one's expertise is in pastoral ministries, the D.Min. would qualify one to teach at both the undergrad & grad level. I personally know several full-time professors who hold only the RA D.Min., which qualifies them to teach at RA/ATS seminaries.

However, beware of Dr. John Doe, DMin, DRE, EdD, PhD, ThD, PhD, JD, LLD, DD, ad nauseaum , etc. They are probably all from degree mills.

But I have seen quite a few who hold one professional doctorate and one academic doctorate.