Concord Law School

Received the following email today. The email ends before it is even completed:


Dear Christian,

Pursuant to your prior interest in Concord Law School and the impending tuition increase, it would be timely to re-appraise the beneficial aspects to your career that enrollment in Concord will generate.

Be advised, due to the higher tuition costs being incurred by maintaining the quality level of Concord Law School's academic standards, a substantial tuition increase will soon be in effect.

However, your immediate response to this E-mail will guarantee your tuition at the pre-existing rate in conjunction with your active enrollment, if completed by March 15, 2002. We are presently interviewing for the June 2002 and September 2002 class.

If you are now ready to interview. I look forward to talking with you and assisting you through the admissions process so you may have an


One thing I seem to notice is these high-flying, for-profit schools seem to increase their tuition substantially right before they go out of business. I wonder if the clock is ticking for Concord.

Regards,

Christian

 

Interesting. I haven't gotten this email yet and I went all the way thru their interview process. I think their tuition is outrageous considering their non-impressive Baby Bar pass rates. They way the interviewer talked to me, was that they had tons of people waiting to get in and that June was almost filled up (this was back in October). He made it sound like they had a high criteria acceptance policy and not just anyone gets in.

 

This week's Chronicle of Higher Education reports Concord expects to earn a profit of over $1,000,000 in 2003. If you are sure you want to be an attorney and after research you feel Concord is the best program for you, go for it. But don't be rushed into a quick decision on this or any other program.

David L. Boyd
(Who is employed by a competitor law school.)

 

During the seven years I was involved in marketing the Heriot-Watt DL MBA, the university raised prices five times, always with at least a two month notice. We came to learn that announcement of a forthcoming price increase was the best marketing tool we had. We contemplated, "Order by midnight tonight, and we'll throw in a free haggis."

 

If anyone wants to know why this works, read the very excellent:

Influence : The Psychology of Persuasion -- by Robert B. Cialdini

 

I actually do not want to be an attorney, but wish to augment my current career with a law degree as many of my coworkers have. Well, I would like to sue my HOA into the stone age.

I know there are many, many opportunities for someone in my situation who does not desire to practice law but, as many people here have said, if you're going to put forth the effort required to get a law degree, you should at least have the opportunity to sit for the Bar should you ever change your mind.

I have made no decisions yet and, quite frankly, still have a good amount of work left to complete my USQ degree. I need not complete the degree to enter law school, but after some personal reflection, decided to wait until I am finished at USQ.

Thanks,

Christian
Working towards BBAD at USQ and GCNP at CSU

 

Nosborne's Rules of Legal Education:

1. A JD is designed to prepare the holder to practice law. A non-Bar JD therefore makes little sense.

2. A JD does not confer much academic status outside of a law school. A non-ABA degree confers even less and is probably almost useless in academia.

3. A non-ABA JD is as much trouble and probably almost as expensive to obtain as a part-time or evening ABA JD would be but has nowhere near the utility of an ABA JD.

4. A non-ABA JD will likely haunt the holder throughout his professional life, if he has one.

5. If you really, really want to study law for its own sake, look at the University of London External LLB program.

If you want to be a lawyer, find an ABA program that works for you with as little sacrifice as possible. Otherwise, don't mess with it.

Nosborne (JD, U. of New Mexico 1986)

 

It was in either 2000 or 2001 that H-W also reduced it tuition cost per course.

John

 

I think that law is of interest to more than attorneys. Politicians write laws. Regulatory agencies and law enforcement enforce laws. Businesspeople find uses for legal training. I know of several philosophers with J.D.s. Writers in a whole range of subjects could use the background.

This is one of those 100% examination-based programs that doesn't actually offer instruction, isn't it? So aren't you really suggesting that a person study law on his or her own?

In that case, why not take both the London LLB and a non-ABA part-time DL program simultaneously? The DL program would give you some of the missing instruction and the London program might add some additional readings and perspective. The DL program would qualify you to take the CA bar exam, while the London degree might carry more credibility with professional peers.

 

Okay. I admit it. I was feeling really disgusted with my career choice when I posted my "Rules". It's been a long week and next week looks worse. Nevertheless, there's truth in them.
I didn't do the London LLB but I understand that their materials are exhaustive and well designed. I guess "reading the law" without lectures is harder than participating with a class, but a D/L JD is going to have a LOT in common with the London LLB as far as "reading" goes.
As to doing both the CA D/L degree and the London LLB, there are some folks that do that, I guess, but if the point is NOT to practice, why bother with the CA degree? And if the point IS to practice or teach, the ABA degree is a much better option. (BTW I think there's at least ONE fellow who got admitted to the CA Bar based on his London External degree. I don't know if he had to get an LLM first.)
Now, having grumped and grumbled, I do confess to a sneaking interest in ONE D/L program, and I don't mean Concord.
There's an older outfit called Northwestern California University College of Law whose Bar passage rate beats the daylights out of most of the D/L competition (other than Oakbrook). And it's almost as cheap as irrigation water in the Imperial Valley. (n.b. That's pretty cheap!)
You can find a link to them at calbar.org under California law schools.
Nosborne

 

Northwestern California's web address is www.nwculaw.edu. Their J.D. tuition is about $2K per year for four years, more than U of New Mexico but a LOT less than Concord. If you can come to their "campus", they do live review sessions, which might explain their comparative success with the Bar.
They seem like a "no-nonsense" outfit. They've been around since 1982.
I'd be very interested in hearing from any past or present students.
Nosborne

 

The DL degree would provide instruction and faculty feedback that might make it a lot easier to pass the London exams. Many of those who enroll in London external programs in Britain and Asia also enroll in commercial tutoring courses in order to prepare. Those custom tailored courses don't seem to be available in the US, certainly not in remote locations. At least one of the London external program webpages (not necessarily the LLB's) suggests that students consider taking classes from local colleges where those are available. So I'm not suggesting anything that the University of London doesn't also suggest.

I've heard those stories too. But is it actually possible in real life?

California Business and Professional Code section 6060 covers admission to the bar:

http://www.calbar.org/pub250/b/s0080-a.htm

Note the words: "by this state".

I'm guessing, but if anyone used a London DL LLB to get admission to the California bar, they probably were admitted to some foreign bar first, and then applied to California as an attorney applicant rather than as a general applicant. The rules are easier for those who have already been admitted to practice in another state or country.

 

I know that the University of San Francisco, a private, non-DL, RA university has a one year LLB conversion program so you can practice in California. I don't remember the exact details, but you can check it out for yourself:

www.usfca.edu

Christian

 

I have received this message recently. I went all the way through the interview process and enrolled at Concord. I start class on April 2, 2002. Where are the results on the Baby Bar?

 

October 2001 Baby Bar results.

Earlier results at The State Bar of California.

 

First of all, congratulations! Can you briefly describe the interview process and what additional information/paperwork/test results were required?

I never made it past the first pre-interview call by my own decision as I fell into the "applicant with foreign academic credentials" category. This sucks!

In short, I would have to pay some local yokel "evaluation company" $120 per class to look at my USQ Marketing class syllabus and then say "Yup, looks like a Marketing class to me!" Multiply by a large number of classes and the hidden costs of applying to Concord become too high for my taste.

I do not hold a degree at this time. In retrospect I failed to ask if having been awarded the degree would have exempted me from the evaluation requirement, or is there was a different evalution required that looked at the degree and not every single class.

This also brings up another possibility: It would be far cheaper, and likely faster, to CLEP myself blind out of Excelsior with a US RA degree. This not only gets me out of the whole evaluation scam, but earns me another degree in a short time (four weeks?).

Note that entry to Concord is 60 units, not a degree, so I guess two weeks of CLEP insanity could do it.

Christian

 

The process consisted of interviewing with an individual which lasts about one hour. The interviewer discusses what you want to do with the JD. I told her I was just interested in the knowledge of law. I currently hold a Doctorate in Electrical Engineering from Southern Methodist University in Dallas. I do not want to limit myself to not being able to take the Bar in California. I probably will not "practice law" in the state of California. I may do patent work for my current employer in the far future.

The interview last about one hour. The interviewer then recommends you to take the entrance exam. The entrance exam consists of reading a 10 page excerpt then taking a 15 question exam on the information in the reading. The questions are very tricky. You have to pay close attention to the details. I scored a 14/15. After you pass the exam the interviewer will call you back with how you performed. Then, you fill out an application online, submit your application, payment, and signed disclosure statement that is required by the state of California. Finally, you wait 4 weeks for approval from the entrance committee.

The main reason I chose Concord is that I like the method of teaching via internet. I have spent many hours in the classroom and just don't want to spend time in the traditional classroom. I think my performance will be superior online. The cost is $6000 per year that can be paid in several different options. I chose $995.00 down and $440.05 for 12 months.


Another reason I chose Concord was because of the relationship with Kaplan.

As far as the "baby bar" results for concord, I am not that concerned. Most law schools "weed out" a considerable amount of students during the first year. The students that make it through the program should be able to pass the bar exam.

Concord philosphy appears to find students that are not able to attend a fixed University for whatever reason. I agree with this philosophy. It does cost them on the "baby bar" results. They do transistion the students that do not pass the "baby bar" after the third time into the Executive JD program.

All this information is located at: www.concordlawschool.com

 

Sounds like my situation. Although, I wouldn't mind harrassing my HOA over many of their stupid decisions and being able to do some of my own personal legal errands that I now pay others for.

I assume this is an online test? Time limit to complete the test?

Thanks for all the info,

Christian

 

For an engineer or scientist interested in patent law, my advice would be to study for and pass the USPTO exam for patent agents, practice for a bit and THEN decide whether you even WANT or NEED a law degree.

If you still want an unaccredited law degree after actually sampling the legal business, I suppose Concord is as good as the next correspondence school, though VERY expensive.

You might also uncover a positive PASSION for torts and contracts and crimes and divorce. If that happens, and you don't want to live in CA, a non-ABA accredited JD will have little or no value.

Nosborne, JD
(who wishes he'd taken JUST A LITTLE MORE CHEMISTRY twenty five years ago so he could take the USPTO exam)

 

The test is online and you have 15 minutes to complete.