U. of California to borrow millions for online classes.

Interesting article on California's online innitiative. It's no wonder that state is in such financial trouble.
Reversing Course, U. of California to Borrow Millions for Online Classes - Wired Campus - The Chronicle of Higher Education

 

I really don't see the point in this. Cal-Berkley doesn't really fit the model for online education. This, IMO, is just going to be an expensive failure.

 

Because the way to make money in online education is to have degree programs. Individual courses aren't the key to revenue. Cal-Berkeley doesn't seem to be willing to make offering online programs a priority.

 

First, the term "University of California" in the news story doesn't mean the Berkeley campus specifically. The proposal is is to develop an online education program as part of the entire "University of California" system.'

Second, it's true that UC schools don't really fit in the current online education world -- but proponents say that this is exactly the point:

Realistically, distance learning is nromally associated with low admissions standards and a lack of academic prestige. The idea is that there could be a market for a selective and prestigious DL program, and that the UC system could fill it. Don't know if this concept will fly, but it should certainly be of potential interest to many readers here.

 

I think it would work if they offered complete degrees programs online. How many individuals would like to have a UC degree but are not able to attend classes due to work schedule and other obligations? It's unfortunate that it can't be branded "Berkley" because it would be quite an opportunity to be able to earn such a prestigious degree online; I think people would jump on it. Since it will be part of the UC system, I would wager that the quality of the UC classes will be top-notch.

I notice that Stanford is offering master's degrees online now. I looked into that and found the price tag to be very high, too high for me. At about $1300 per unit it becomes a very expensive endeavor. I haven't looked, but I expect that UC will be cheaper.

When it becomes commonplace for the top universities to offer online degree programs, it is likely that the profit online schools will suffer. When this happens, I'll bet that the price of those schools will have to drop drastically to enable them to survive.

 

Not necessarily. Historically, the mission of the UC system has been to take students from the top eighth (12.5%) of California high school graduates. They set their admissions standards accordingly -- which means that their admissions standards are designed to reject the other 87.5%.

If the online program maintains this standard -- and that seems to be the idea -- then realistically, many of the students that for-profit schools attract are simply not going to get in, no matter how attractive or low-priced a UC online degree may be.

 

There are plenty of students at profit schools who would qualify for UC, many of whom are attending profit schools just because of time limitations. You are right that there will be a percentage that could never qualify, many of these will be the same students that also do not make it through the programs at the profit schools.

What I'm saying is that if most of the major colleges and universities offer online programs, it will significantly shrink the customer base of the profit schools. I'm not just speaking of UC but of a majority of respected B&M universities that would need to be offering online programs. If this happens, everyone that would like to go to a private college or a state college, given that they qualify academically, will have the opportunity and most will choose, for example, Cal State over University of Phoenix. Who wouldn't? The profit schools will be left to compete for the lower-end students. The law of supply and demand will force profit schools to lower their prices.

 

GWU is a great school, but it does not fit the "prestigious, elite selective great" descriptor that UC's provost is trying to use. (Almost?) all of the UC campuses show up on the ARWU (in fact Berkeley was #2), a list GWU has never shown up on. Berekely is 22 on USNWR's national list while GWU is 55. Not a bad place to be for GW, but I think the provost's statements are accurate.

The chronicle article seemed to focus on undergraduate education whereas GWU (and most good non-profit schools) do in fact practice openish-enrollment graduate education. Most of these schools are letting everyone into their programs because if you have an RA bachelors and the resources to pay for their program, you most likely don't have a terrible head on your shoulders.

I think the provost's comments are also an accurate assessment of online undergraduate education. I share the opinion of most here that this shouldn't be something the UC needs to take out loans for, but it is nice to see them taking a risk and trying something new. The UC system has always been the public university system that says quality (even more so than most non-Ivy private universities), it'll be really interesting to see if this translates into the online realm.

 

UC is speaking about offering bachelors degrees entirely online (not just a degree completion program) that is something that no school on par with UC Berkeley is offering.

 

That's true for freshmen admissions but I know UCLA is pretty easy to get into as a junior transfer if you pull off a 3.5 in community college (usually Santa Monica College). I'm not sure if the same is true for Berkeley but I know that UCLA and Berkeley are, by far, the hardest UCs to get into.

 

Are you sure about these figures, cause I know alot of people who attended UC's, and although they we all good students, a 87.5% rejection rate seems really high; especially considering I heard Stanford has somewhere near that number and to compare Stanford to a UC is a stretch.

I could be wrong, I'm just saying . . .

 

In theory, if *every* graduating senior in California applied to UC schools, then the rejection rate would be about 87%. The UC system is only set up to take the top 12.5%.

But in practice, the rejection rate is much lower -- simply because *not every* graduating senior in California applies. Realistically, most people won't bother to prepare and submit a UC application, unless they believe that they are reasonably close to that top 12.5% level.

For example, few seniors in the bottom 75% of their high school classes are going to submit a UC application. Those students are not counted in the rejection rate (because they never applied), but they are effectively excluded anyway.

 

Exactly. A student might consider UC out of reach so he or she may focus on CSU schools, less selective private schools, or community colleges.

 

it's true that the flagship Penn State B&M campus in University Park is ranked 47th by US News. But the many other Penn State campuses (Penn State Beaver, Penn State Altoona, etc) are much less selective and prestigious. This includes Penn State World Campus.

 

Can we please not rehash the Penn State campus debate. People get worked up over it. Times like these I wish Thomas_Jefferson were here.

 

The University of California certainly has the available talent to create a top-flight program, but I wonder if they have the vision to do so. Over the past year, quotes from U.C. officials have demonstrated an astounding lack of understanding regarding distance learning and an ignorance of the advances made during the past couple of decades. If they do not take into account their own ingrained culture and will admit that they might be able to learn from others, then they will be destined for the same fate as the University of Illinois Online Global disaster (which could have been avoided if U of I would have partnered with its own Springfield campus). Anyway, are we sure that these U.C. online courses are going to be coming from Berkeley, rather than the Merced, Santa Cruz or Riverside campuses?

 

I tend to agree with you Doctor. Having dealt with many of the narrow minded UC staff, I see what you mean.

Abner