Can a DL doctorate holder get a professorship at a B&M school?

I have been having a debate with a few very nice people and I thought others might like to weigh in. These have occurred on threads posted by some DI members who plan on a career change accomplished by getting a distance doctorate degree and then getting a job as a professor, in-person, at a major B&M school.

Give us your opinion on the following:

1. What is the likelihood of getting a first-time, B&M professorship when you have a DL doctorate?

2. Would a South African, or other foreign DL doctorate fare any better in this endeavor?

3. How is the pay and stability for an online adjunct professor? Do you agree that a DL doctorate holder would be more likely to land this kind of a teaching job?

 

1) Slim, unless you have other qualifications. If you are pursuing this as a career-changing move, then you probably won't have the necessary experience to obtain a tenure-track position at a university. You might have better luck at a community college, but it's by no means a sure thing. It's hard enough to obtain a tenure-track position when you have a B&M doc. When you have a distance doc without much "in person" teaching experience, you are at a disadvantage for a traditional program. Most B&M candidates will have taught courses at the university from which they obtained the doctorate.

2) I would think that in some cases it might but in others it might not. I would think that in some cases, a foreign doctorate might outweigh a for-profit doctorate, but this isn't a sure thing. Of course, just like with US doctorates, not all doctorates are created equal. A PhD from a highly-regarded foreign school would probably work well.

 

I don't see it happening. Especially in any subject in the humanities where people from top tier PhD programs are struggling to find tenure track positions. For business school, if the PhD doesn't come from an AACSB accredited school I don't think there is much of a chance.
Maybe there is a possibility of landing something at small B&M state schools. I noticed one time that a number of tenure track professors at SEMO (Southeast Missouri State University) in both the b-school and the school of education didn't have PhD's, they had Ed.Ds, which historically isn't a degree geared towards people looking to be a professor at a research institution. Not sure if any of those profs earned there Ed.D through untraditional means, but there sure were a lot of them and I know some of the programs listed on their CVs are available via distance. Possibly a school similar to that would consider making a hire with a non-traditional doctorate.

I think publishing and presenting at conferences would go a long way to making someone in a distance PhD program more competitive for tenure track jobs.

 

I concur with this.

 

It would be more likely to happen (at least in SA) if you were already on the permanent teaching staff and pursued a DL PhD from UNISA (only if you for some reason you couldn't do it at the university where you were already working). This would probably be more of a formality for the sake of set promotion requirements when the job is basically secured. Outside of that you could get in with a UNISA degree IF you have an impressive work history. In these cases, again, the degree is a formal requirement but the offer is really made based on your reputation.

 

It seems to me that a lot of people romanticize getting on the tenure track at a B&M university. Even if you could do it, all you are doing is setting yourself up for a soul-destroying, underpaying job sucking up to people you don't respect in order to gain political points. Some of the people who taught me in my masters 20-odd years ago are still grovelling to become full professors. It's pathetic.

If you like teaching, do it. Join a community college, where people get hired with masters degrees and less all the time. Why? Because they are good teachers, and present with an interesting background. Don't assume you will be a good teacher if you haven't done it before. Probably half the people we hire crash and burn because they can't command and inspire a lecture theater full of 200 students.

One you are in the CC system, your doctorate will get you an extra bump on the salary scale, and the chance to teach higher level students. Believe me, nobody will ask or care where the doctorate is from.

 

Most of the British, Australian and South African doctorates could be considered DL as most of the work can be completed off-campus.

The short answer is Yes. There are plenty of people that finish work by using external work and get full time professor positions.

However, I think tt is not about the format but the credibility of the institution. If the doctorate is earned from a institution with low credibility, even if it is completed on campus wouldn't worth much in the academic market.

I think we are confusing format with quality of institutions. Many of the online doctorates that are discussed here are not from established institutions that have earned a certain reputation, most online universities are just too new to be recognized as credible institutions.

I believe that someone with a DL doctorate from Henley College, Grenoble, Queensland Institute of Technology just to mention a few, wouldn't have a problem securing a full time professor position.

As for job security for online adjuct work. I believe there is a trend to hire more online adjuncts so I believe people should not have problems getting work as an online adjunct with an online doctorate. However, the salary gap between an online gig at an online school is huge compared to salaries paid by established AACSB accredited schools.

In summary, an online doctorate from an online institution can be used mainly for online adjunct work. People seeking B&M full time teaching positions should seek for traditional PhD programs or DL from established institutions.

 

perhaps a professorship, but I'm doubtful of a porfessorship.

(yes, I too wish there was a vBulletin edit feature for typos in thread titles. been there. done that.)

 

I have a "google news search" set up that looks for key phrases like NEW DOCTORATE PROGRAM and PHD ACCOUNTING etc and it reports to me on a daily basis.

One thing I am see that is interesting is more and more articles where a professor at a B&M is mentioned / pursuing their degree at WALDEN and similar!!! So they are already teaching at B/M but picking up the Doctorate via DL.

Another thing I think is going away is TENURE. UNC colleges are told to expect a 5-15% cut again this year and I saw an article where 2 doctorate degrees, a few dozen masters LOTS of Bachelor, degree programs are being dropped. I know professors are being let go as well (it was Linguistics, etc that was being lost in this article)

I suspect the concept of Tenure will go away except at VERY large, Tier 1 schools.

So, my answer is I suspect you can teach at a lower level B&M if that is what you desire, with a "Good" DL doctorate. Good to me means either US + RA, or Overseas and VERY well thought of. (I am thinking Univ of Liverpool as example of that, not sure how respected UNISA is?)

 

UNISA is not exactly prestigious or recognized but it is a decent option for those with low budgets. It could work for people already teaching and needing the PhD just for a raise or to secure a tenure track. The PhD would be bullet proof as it comes from a SA state school but it is not something that would impress on a resume.

The main problem is how to explain the degree if you live in the US or Canada. It is already hard to explain a degree that was earned DL so you would have a very hard time convincing a hiring committee that you went with UNISA because they were best option and not the cheapest option.

 

I agree. Looking at the Chronicle job postings, I wonder why so many people think that TT faculty jobs are such desireable positions? Many people with a decent adjuncting portfolio and a "real" job can make more than the typical TT faculty member.

 

In the case of business professors at top schools though, I think you would have to add on extra money they can make consulting which would be similar to adjuncting income for those with real jobs. When I was an undergrad many of my professors would mention consulting jobs, which I believe they were very well compensated for. Also, I think profs at top school make well into six figures, which is certainly more than the average job, particularly given that they have a lot of time off. Granted, much of this is not true for non-business fields and whether or not it will always be true for business schools is also a question.

I think job satisfaction is also a factor. Being a professor at a university sounds more satisfying to me than working in the corporate world, although I could be wrong about that.

 

Exactly my point - the type people who do not frequent internet forums asking if a DL Doctorate will get them a good TT faculty job.

 

Maybe that was a Freudian slip, see? I know that many professors are not paid well so they are poor, that's how you get a "PORfessorship" :smile:

Fortunately, being a mod, I can change my mistake. I will change those for anyone here too, just PM me.

 

Truckie, I agree with you. I kind of forgot about the OP and was just focusing on the tenure track comments. I see getting one of the tenure track positions I am referring to as more desirable (but difficult to get) than a real job and adjuncting. Those might be more the exception than the rule though.

 

I may be an exception...

Folks - I believe the overall tenor of this thread is pretty appropriate - pursuing a DL doctorate and hoping to land a tenure track job at a top university isn't likely.

In my own case, I did complete a DBA at Nova Southeastern, and I am tenured and a department head at a smaller, ACBSP accredited school.

My situation may be an exception. But NSU worked for me. It has worked for a number of other folks too - mostly at smaller institutions, but some that are at AACSB schools.

A couple of cavaets - I moved into a full-time position at a school where I had been a long time adjunct. I do have a numbe of publications and conference papers. NSU is headed for AACSB accreditation.

If I were starting today (and not in 1992 when I did), I'd look for a AACSB school and avoid the for-profits. There now are some good choices in part-time (albeit on-ground) programs - such as Wayne State in Detroit or Cleveland State in Cleveland.

Regards - Andy

 

Very good, Andy. I'm glad to hear of your success. You have have offered three points that speak directly to my argument suggesting that getting a B&M job is unlikely when you hold a DL doctorate. You have succeeded where many are currently failing and you bring up three reasons for this: 1. You had worked at the school before you got your doctorate. 2. You are published. 3. Things have changed in the past 10 years. One that you did not mention, but I suspect is the case, is the fact that you are likely a talented individual.

 

:smile:

Thanks, doc. You're the best...regardless of what anyone else says. :wink:

 

Hey, what happened to the sucking up? :smile: