Non-acceptance of Oxford's "automatic" Master's degree

This relates to the outrageous non-acceptance by St. Joseph's of any for-profit degree, a reminder that generally reasonable schools still do inexplicable things.

I've been corresponding privately with a man who has the "automatic" Master's degree that Oxford (and Cambridge and Dublin) award to all their Bachelor's degree holders after 4 to 7 years (if they stay out of prison). The schools maintain that these are earned degrees, and the academic world generally accepts them as that. (Harvard, Yale, and other US schools used to do the same thing.) But this person's employer, a community college, refuses to accept the degree for promotion and salary purposes. I know nothing to say to this man, nor to the person trying to get into St.Josephs, other than my mother's regular reminder that "No one ever said that life was fair."

 

That's not quite right - even in the UK those "automatic" Masters are not considered a graduate degree. I know that because I've been researching some UK Phd and Dprof programs and in a good number of schools websites they are very clear that they don't accept those MA as masters degrees.

(Most UK Phd and Dprof, at least in my area, ask for a Master as a pre-requisite for admission).

In the UK people know those MA are honorary Masters.

So, it's not quite the same case of the guy trying to get into St. Josephs.

 

Good for the community college. They are behaving fairly and correctly.

They are being fair to the graduates of just about every other university on earth, some of them extremely prestigious and clearly the equal of Oxford in their subjects, that don't indulge in Oxford's millish practice. It's even fair to holders of real earned Oxford masters degrees, which for some incomprehensible reason are entitled Master of Studies (MSt) instead of Master of Arts.

 

In the UK several universities award masters degrees as a first degree. The M.Chem. is a good example.
On the other hand UK science degrees are probably akin to a US masters degree in that the major is just about the only subject studied (and regarded as so by many usa companies). What are considered "gen ed" subjects in the USA are supposed to have been studied in high schol in the UK (and verified via A-level exams). My daughters Psych degree at York consisted of only pysch courses (Psychology BSc (Hons))

 

I will assume this is either a mulligan, a belated April Fools, or written while you were under the influence of alcohol.

 

I asked the folks at Dublin, Cambridge, and Oxford how that Master's was regarded in the academic world, and got this semi-helpful reply from Dublin. I guess the question really needs to be asked to a bunch of other universities, UK, US, elsewhere.
==========================
Master in Arts (M.A.)

The 1966 Consolidated Statutes of Trinity College, Dublin and of the University of Dublin states:

“Master in Arts – A Bachelor of a least three years’ standing is eligible to proceed to this degree.”

This degree may be conferred at any Commencements upon application and the payment of a fee; this fee is waived in the case of graduates of fifty or more years’ standing. Upon conferral of the degree, the post-nominal letters M.A. may be used.
There is no examination or study required for the degree beyond those required for the undergraduate Bachelors programs.
The three year waiting period required reflects that the graduate has acquired six or seven years' seniority as a member of the university.
The historical basis of this award dates from the Middle Ages, when traditionally the study of the liberal arts took seven years. In between matriculation and the granting of a license to teach, which was awarded at the end of undergraduate study, and upon which the Master in Arts degree was conferred, an intermediate baccalaureate or Bachelors’ degree was taken. Upon eventual admission to the degree of Master in Arts, a student would become a full member of the university, with the rights and privileges contained therein.

This tradition is continued today at The University of Dublin (and at the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge) in which the conferral of the Master in Arts, reflects the senior status achieved by the student and their entitlement to membership of the Senate, the legislative body of the University.
=====================

 

Sorry, but I am confused. Could you elaborate on what the "this" refers to.

Is not a mulligan a second chance? What would be the first chance?
My April Fool pranks are wildly creative, on the rare occasions that I launch one.
I don't use alcohol. Well, a glass of wine every month or two.

 

No disrespect meant. I just found it funny that a leading advocate of distance education would openly stump for a masters degree with no actual scholastic work done being used as a teaching credential.

 

Baffled. How could "I know nothing to say to this man" be construed as "openly stumping"?

I continue to be surprised by how little is known about the acceptance of various kinds of degrees and credentials. The only research I know about is the modest study I did in 2000, in which 300 or so registrars reported on whether they accept various kinds of degrees (regionally accredited, nationally accredited, state-approved, etc) always, usually, sometimes, rarely, or never. I'd love to know (among many other things) whether the 'automatic' Oxbridge/Dublin Master's is accepted by 97% of schools or 2% or what, and whether it is different in the UK, the US, etc. The main thing I have openly stumped for is people having information to make their own decisions, which is why I routinely say, "If you are satisfied that a given degree will meet your current and predictable future needs, then go for it." Sure, that leads to some angry letters down the road. ("I got my degree from Northland Open University because you said it was a a good choice, and now I'm in trouble because..." Well, no. What I said was, "If you are satisfied that a given degree..." etc. etc. blah blah. And I do also regularly warn about the 'time bomb in the resume' matter.

 

I suspect that in most cases, if one's resume says "BA Oxford 2007, MA Oxford 2010," very few employers in the USA would know that it was an automatically granted degree. In the case mentioned in the OP, the current employer probably is aware of it mainly because the degree holder was employed there during the years between the BA and MA.

Like you, though, I have no idea what to tell the degree holder. I guess his choices are to accept the employer's decision, or seek employment elsewhere.

 

I have seen many people that graduate from Russia or Romania with a first degree that list their degrees in their resumes as MS or MBAs. I have seen other people that lists DEAs from France as PhDs in the USA or Canada.
I think that when it comes to foreign degrees, you can use the the way you want unless the employer asks for foreign equivalency report.